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Thread: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?

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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    derf previously posted:
    "If there's traffic on the channel I'm trying to use, I just pick another channel if I can."

    If there is traffic on the window I am yelling out of, I usually just yell out of passenger window....
    seriously, this has been pretty insightful....As I rarely have a radio on board (unless handed to by someone else), I guess I don't really have a feel for how busy the radio channels are. Is it so busy that just finding another channel is difficult?
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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "If there is traffic on the window I am yelling out of, I usually just yell out of passenger window....
    seriously, this has been pretty insightful....As I rarely have a radio on board (unless handed to by someone else), I guess I don't really have a feel for how busy the radio channels are. Is it so busy that just finding another channel is difficult?"

    Finding is not difficult. Getting everyone on it can be cumbersome.
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  3. The Following Member Says Thanks to Tom For This Post:

    speedkills (July 21st, 2021)

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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "If there is traffic on the window I am yelling out of, I usually just yell out of passenger window....
    seriously, this has been pretty insightful....As I rarely have a radio on board (unless handed to by someone else), I guess I don't really have a feel for how busy the radio channels are. Is it so busy that just finding another channel is difficult?"

    CB has 40 channels. I can't remember a time when we couldn't find an empty channel. Even in Ouray/Teluride where there were multiple groups on trails really close to each other.

    I haven't used FRS/GMRS much yet but there are many channels to choose from.

    And, of course, ham has tons of frequencies available with fewer operators so it seems like there's always room to find a place to chat.

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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    After looking at the resource Tom posted and reading through the various inputs from folks here, it sounds like if we wanted to use a privacy code then CTCSS is likely the way to go. It seems to be more consistently numbered by the most common FRS/GMRS radio manufactures like Midland, Motorola, and Cobra just to name a few. I think the "Privacy Code" term, while not 100% literally accurate, is the most commonly used term in the manuals for these major manufacturers. I also think it could be helpful to specify the CTCSS tone frequency as well for those using less common radios which should then cover almost everyone.

    So an example, per the "Common" column in the previously shared chart:

    FRS/GMRS Channel 6, Privacy Code 14 (107.2Hz CTCSS)

    or a shorter version:
    Channel 6, Code 14 (107.2Hz)

    Do people feel like that's clear enough?


    TjMike previously posted:
    "Not to hijack the tread but been looking at getting a decent radio. Anyone have a link or model number that has worked well for them?"

    Are you looking for a handheld or something to mount on your dash? Do you have a rough idea of how much you want to spend?

  6. The Following Member Says Thanks to Trevor? For This Post:

    Tom (July 21st, 2021)

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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    Trevor? previously posted:
    "After looking at the resource Tom posted and reading through the various inputs from folks here, it sounds like if we wanted to use a privacy code then CTCSS is likely the way to go. It seems to be more consistently numbered by the most common FRS/GMRS radio manufactures like Midland, Motorola, and Cobra just to name a few. I think the "Privacy Code" term, while not 100% literally accurate, is the most commonly used term in the manuals for these major manufacturers. I also think it could be helpful to specify the CTCSS tone frequency as well for those using less common radios which should then cover almost everyone.

    So an example, per the "Common" column in the previously shared chart:

    FRS/GMRS Channel 6, Privacy Code 14 (107.2Hz CTCSS)

    or a shorter version:
    Channel 6, Code 14 (107.2Hz)

    Do people feel like that's clear enough?




    Are you looking for a handheld or something to mount on your dash? Do you have a rough idea of how much you want to spend?"

    The shorter version is just about what I have on the Red Cone Webster pass planned run.
    (FRS/GMRS channel 4: privacy code 4, 77hz)
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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    Trevor? previously posted:
    "Do people feel like that's clear enough?"

    Yes - now that I understand the frequency aspect that Tom explained to me.


    My take, for recommended channels (this is just my offering, I'm trying to get some focus):

    CB: 33, alternative 27
    Why, 33's far away from channel 1, 4, 16 [4x4], 9 [emergency]. It's "obscure" (not a top-of-the-head common choice number) and is not nearby 4 or 16 (for those dropping/upping one channel). Alternative, should 33 be busy, 27 is a somewhat close unusual number. I realize that CB might quickly become obsolete.


    FRS/GMRS: Channel 6, Code 14 (107.2Hz), alternative Channel 2, no privacy code
    Tom's chart in post #30 is handy - to use a privacy code that spans the radio types - code 4 and 14 do this. I'm listing FRS/GMRS as one entity - is this reasonable or should they be broken out?


    HAM: 146.550, alternative 146.490
    (either side of natl freq) -
    What Tom said in post #5

  9. The Following Member Says Thanks to Jim For This Post:

    TjMike (July 21st, 2021)

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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    Jim previously posted:
    "My take, for recommended channels (this is just my offering, I'm trying to get some focus):

    CB: 33, alternative 27
    Why, 33's far away from channel 1, 4, 16 [4x4], 9 [emergency]. It's "obscure" (not a top-of-the-head common choice number) and is not nearby 4 or 16 (for those dropping/upping one channel). Alternative, should 33 be busy, 27 is a somewhat close unusual number. I realize that CB might quickly become obsolete.


    FRS/GMRS: Channel 6, Code 14 (107.2Hz), alternative Channel 2, no privacy code
    Tom's chart in post #30 is handy - to use a privacy code that spans the radio types - code 4 and 14 do this. I'm listing FRS/GMRS as one entity - is this reasonable or should they be broken out?


    HAM: 146.550, alternative 146.490
    (either side of natl freq) -
    What Tom said in post #5"

    I am comfortable with those channels/freqs. Yes frs/gmrs should be treated the same since they use the same frequencies and can communicate with each other.

    I will change up the Red Cone run to use these and we can see how it goes. Trail by fire.
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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    Select posts, asking for FRS / GMRS radio recommendations have been moved to their own, new, thread:
    www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?28772-Recommended-FRS-amp-GMRS-radios
    .
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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    Tom previously posted:
    "I will change up the Red Cone run to use these and we can see how it goes."



    I set my two FRS radios for primary and alternate... If they need to be changed to something better - so be it.

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    Tom (July 21st, 2021)

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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    speedkills previously posted:
    "That's what I would like about them I think, I don't have much problem with missed transmissions from someone being talked over by a person not in our group, from what I have seen we usually switch channels because we are hearing sounds or people we don't care to listen to."

    The "privacy" code will do that. But it will also prevent you from knowing if you are missing a transmission when the other group transmits simultaneously. You won't hear anything at all, whereas without the privacy code you would at least hear the other group and realize there was a conflict. Changing the channel instead of relying on privacy codes solves both problems, in my view.

    Sorry for a long post, but let me give a possible example:

    Suppose another group is close behind ours. We don't realize they are on the same frequency because our code is different from theirs, or they aren't using codes, so we don't hear them.

    The front vehicles in our group can communicate fine with each other because their signals are stronger relative to the other group in back. But for the rear vehicles, the other group's signals are stronger and those transmissions block the reception of the more distant and weaker transmission of the first few vehicles in our group - if they happen to transmit simultaneously. We don't suspect this is happening, because our privacy code never opens the squelch to hear the other group.

    FRS/GMRS radios use frequency modulation which has a "capture effect" of the strongest signal, and a weaker signal isn't received. With amplitude modulation such with CB, you know there was a conflict because you hear a squeal or mixed voices when two people transmit simultaneously, regardless of signal strengths. Aircraft radios use AM because of this and the vital need to never miss a transmission without knowing it has happened so that a repeat can be done.

    Now obviously this is not an immediate safety issue for us as it is for aircraft, and we have a protocol to always keep the vehicle behind in view. But it could cause problems, and in my view is an unnecessary complication when there are so many channels to choose from.

    If there were so many groups cruising around nearby that changing channels doesn't work to avoid hearing them, then using privacy codes would result in many missed messages because there would be many simultaneous transmissions, making the situation even worse.

  15. The Following 4 Members Say Thanks to Bob For This Post:

    Jim (July 23rd, 2021),speedkills (July 23rd, 2021),Tom (July 23rd, 2021),Trevor? (July 23rd, 2021)

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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    Good points Bob.
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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    I think the situation Bob highlights could be mitigated by good practices. If the lead vehicle checks in every so often with the tail vehicle, as has generally been the case, then we would be pretty likely to realize something is wrong and stop to check it out. If we're all trying to keep eachother in sight anyway (make sure you can see the person behind you) then we're less likely to leave anyone behind who is having an problem... which is one of the things the radios are trying to help us do.
    Also, and I recognize I'm in the minority here, but I could program my Icom to scan whatever subset of channels with and without privacy codes. Anyone else with an extra handheld set to scan with the codes off could get a similar capability although with much more chatter to put up with. If they hear a bunch of extra chatter on the selected channel they could alert the group.

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    Tom (July 23rd, 2021)

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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



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    Default Re: FR4x4 default radio channels - what shall we use?



    ... that ForumAdmin guy needs to update the RSVP page with new info ...

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