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Thread: Donations

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    Default Donations



    EDIT: The donations process is being migrated - at least for a test - from the monthly process to twice per year (spring & fall). Members who are logged in may click the link at the end of this post for additional donation methods.

    ======================
    A bit of info regarding forum donations...

    This forum is paid for via donations. No person is required to make a donation. Donations are voluntary. There is no forum benefit / unlocked forum that comes from a donation. The benefit is self knowledge & satisfaction of maintaining something that is of value to you. There is no requirement to be a member to make a donation (non-members do occasionally send in a donation). As of January 2016 the monthly donation goal is $60.00.

    Donations are typically processed electronically via the "Donations Bar" which utilizes PayPal. It is possible to send a donation to the forum via methods other than PayPal*. Donations may be sent to the forum at any time, though, donations are typically processed via the Donations Bar which is typically turned on near the end of "mostly" every month. Donations in excess of the monthly goal are rolled forward to the next month(s).

    The donations bar appears near the top of each page and looks like this:



    A donation sent via the Donations Bar is somewhat manual. When the donation process is started, the Admin receives a PM that the process is started (someone clicked the donate button - if it is a logged in member, the member name is included, if it is via a not-logged-in session the IP address is included). The process is handed off to PayPal. When the donation is completed at PayPal.com a receipt message is sent from PayPal (the funds were transferred). At that point, the Admin manually acknowledges the donation as complete and the Donations Bar reflects the donation (and the donor receives a thank you message).

    There are times where donations are sent but the Admin is unable to process the donation acknowledgements and donations in excess of the goal are received. In such times the excess is rolled forward to the next donation period(s). On a rare occasion a large donation, covering more than one month, is processed. Again, the excess is rolled forward. For the times when there is an excess of the donation goal the donations bar is not turned on the following period.

    * To send a donation to the forum via a method other than PayPal, please send a Private Message (PM) to the Administrator or use the Contact Us function. Members might wish to read this post for additional contact options.

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    Default Re: Donations



    Ever given thought to an approved "vendor" list. I know there is kinda an open door policy as of now, but if you were to charge each vendor $100/year you would only need 6. Then anything extra maybe save 50% of that money as a "safety" or "Savings" for the following year, and spend the rest at a forum gathering like the Memorial Run, or use it to help clean up a trail. You could then also do a once a year fundraiser on top of it all as well.

    Again, just thinking out loud.

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    Default Re: Donations



    We did that in the beginning and the vendors also made a product donation of their choosing. We'd cover costs and have a raffle for members with the product donations.
    ___________
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    RockyMtnLife (March 29th, 2019)

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    Default Re: Donations



    Chris previously posted:
    "We did that in the beginning and the vendors also made a product donation of their choosing. We'd cover costs and have a raffle for members with the product donations."

    Why did you all stop?

    Edit: Also, if there were to be a surplus of money, could that money, or a % of, go to the admins as a thank you?

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    Default Re: Donations



    Brucker previously posted:
    "Why did you all stop?"

    I honestly don't recall. I think it was simply not really in line with the overall philosophy. Probably also involved more work than I wanted at the time too.
    ___________
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    Default Re: Donations



    "If you like to get off-road, have some beers and trash the trails this isn't the place for you either. We believe in giving back to the 4x4 community, forest service and supporting organizations that make wheeling in Colorado as great as it is.

    If you don't like to actively participate, feel free to browse the forum but don't bother becoming a member. "

    That is from the rules page. IMO there should be a volunteer requirement, just like running a trail, each year. You could clean a trail, donate to the turkey run online, toys for tots, organize, whatever. We could adopt Yankee Hill easily. My 2nd FR4x4 run was a cleanup at DC and it was awesome, many hands made fun work and we finished so fast we got to run the other trail before noon. I also think a one time $5.00 donation to join would be great- there are 500+ members, most of which contribute nothing more than a head to count, many who join just to sell stuff and never post again. I'd be happy to pay it retroactively, and it would weed out / prevent a lot of dead weight.

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    Default Re: Donations



    Paul previously posted:
    "there are 500+ members"

    about the same 20 contribute!!!!! with that many members I would think this wouldnt even be a discussion right now....
    ___________
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    Default Re: Donations



    I like Paul's idea of a one-time joiner fee of $5.

    I also agree that it does seem to be the very small minority covering the donations (I used to be part of that crew, and current and former admins can attest to that). My donations were more like $10 - $20. I haven't donated in a while since it bothers me that so many never contribute).

    But here's a couple ideas...

    1. We often see posters that are giving stuff away for free. What if the the recipient of the free item offered to make a cash donation to the forum in the name of the giver?
    2. To make it more fun, we could try holding an annual fundraiser where we set up tables and display our wares that we were willing to give away for free (set it up like a yard sale), but all monies raised would be turned in to the admin (or cashier) and all money collected would go to the forum, The items wouldn't have to be 4x4 related, just stuff you don't need anymore. For example: Instead of me laying out that "free bag of kid clothes and other toys", a small price could be offered by someone and the money would be turned in to the "cashier". In the end, the "buyer" got his "free item" for a small price instead and it would eliminate their need to feel obligated to donate again for a while.
    3. I've noticed it has usually been the same people donating food and other needed supplies for the Anniversary Run. Perhaps there could be a small lunch fee donation box set up and and people could shove a few bucks in there.

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    Default Re: Donations



    this may not work here since we don't do monthly meetings etc but it could be done at rides or completely online as well. as this is what my club back in ms does for most of the clubs funding. it is a 50/50 drawing. we would do one at every meeting. you buy tickets for $1 a piece. can buy as many as you want or none. winner gets half of the pot and the club gets the other half. and alot of the time the winner would donate his winnings back to the club.

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    Default Re: Donations



    This thread and this post cover two arenas. The first is the mechanics of how donations can be handled while the second is the ?philosophy? regarding who is offering to donate and change that could be made to have more members involved.

    Now into the mind ramble...

    My stance is that donations are anonymous and I'll continue to hold that position. With that respect, I do not wish to have any badge depicting who has financially supported - we are equal in this aspect. It is our participation of getting together that is our core - enjoying our lands, improving our lands - together.

    Seat of the pants, I agree with Rick regarding the number of donors (I can look all of this up, and am considering doing so). The donor roll is frequently the same 20 names (perhaps less than 20).

    3. The $5 or $10 donation to become a member is curious (but see my note below about "friends"). Currently, most (95%) of the registrants are valid persons living in the front range area. There is little spam these days (fortunately) and an out-of-area registration is rare (and is turned down). Occasionally, someone will sign up and never post an intro thread. After the first four days I send a nudge e-mail. If no intro in another four days the account is inactivated. Those that sign up and never make a single post make me scratch my head - why bother signing up?

    Chris had/has a desire to delete accounts when the member is no longer around. He wishes a low, active member count. I agree but that process does introduce an undesirable issue so I made a change and am not deleting accounts. The problem is that deleting an account of a member who made posts will send those posts to a single generic account. Doing so makes some threads difficult to read by having many members' posts being grouped as one generic member. By me setting accounts to inactive vs. deleting them the posts will stay referenced to the member that made them, making threads easier to read. Unfortunately, the "dead" membership number will grow. It's the "active" members that I am only interested in.

    To see how many active member accounts are on the forum: The bottom of the main page, in the stats section, lists "Members: 529" (as of this post). That is total member accounts. It's easy to see but it's not valid (I should remove that from the stats). To see the "active" member accounts: Go to the member list and hit "Search Members" > "Advanced Search" (don't enter anything to search for) > click "Search Now". In the bottom left of the first search results page is the results list. Currently it says "Results 1 to 50 of 234". We have 234 active membership accounts.

    The current donation process is fairly low maintenance to the admin. I'm content processing things as-is. Organizing a once a season vendor raffle or member drive doesn't sound attractive to me - sounds like much more work. If some member wishes to tend the process, that'd be a solid option. Moving to a quarterly donation process might be an easy option as well.

    I, speaking as a member, do like that we are an independent, self-serve group. "Everyone" is not required to do anything. Those that wish to step up and contribute may (and do!). I like the casualness (no dues requirements, no meetings) as that is what a group of friends is - easy going, getting together to enjoy a trail run together or getting together to help on a project. My personal pref is to keep it casual and easy flowing vs. more structure / requirements (though discussion for change is good to do).

    Yes, there will (always) be those that don't choose do donate or help. Many of those will be low activity persons. Yes, we'll have some high membership numbers and the "same core group" of active people will be active in donating and keeping things otherwise active.

    I look at us as a group of friends and the web forum as an avenue we can communicate and coordinate when we're not meeting face to face and enjoying a nice day in some grand scenery (or slogging in a wet ditch with a disabled vehicle). The same core group of 20 or 50 are who contribute. This core group is surrounded by many acquaintances (the other 200+ members). It's the core group that is primarily responsible for keeping the group running. It's this core group that is setting a good example to a wider wheeling community (the other 200+) - and THAT is an impressive, positive education task.

    In summary, it's like we have two groups (which seems natural to the human nature). The core group and the acquaintances. The core group of friends helps the others learn good wheeling etiquette. Some acquaintances will transition into the core of the group - and that's wholly welcomed while some will leave the group.

    The requirements for maintaining membership with the group are quite basic (IMO). Log into the forum once every 60 days and participate (drive or ride along) on a group trail cleanup once per year. No activity will find the account moved to inactive. The four spare tires are limited. When someone decides to use a spare to re-activate it is a set process where each is informed of the minimum input needed.

    End of ramble. I see us as a casual group of friends. Those that are active will tow the line. I don't get disgruntled or concerned over the other 90% that's not stepping up. So long as the core is content with keeping things running where the core is happy, I'm happy. If the core can enjoy the company of some acquaintances as well, perhaps having some wish to be more active, all the better.

    I'm certainly open for positive change. I'd guess all of us would agree.

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    Default Re: Donations



    An admin ramble on "badges".

    Badge info in this thread:
    www.FrontRange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?19539-Badges

    Wheeler [year] badges are quite handy to the admin. When someone posts in a trail run report, and I see an old year, it's an easy tip to update that account. Hint: All run participants should post in the run report - even if to only say "It was a nice day out".

    The other badges, I'm ambivalent. They look nice (all are well designed). The core group of folks know what each other has done and what might be anticipated from another. No badge needed as the longer friendship aspect takes over. Now, for those who don't know (the not-too-active membership I called "acquaintances" earlier), those badges do help to identify the activity someone has put in.

    I've had request to add the year to the (dangit - can't find the PM...) Volunteer or Organizer badge. I can, but the way the forum software works, I have to create a new group for each year. That is currently happening with the Wheeler badge, but with four spare tires / inactivations, I'd anticipate no more than five (maybe six) years / groups of those. I don't know how many groups the forum software allows (I should look it up). I guess I could limit Volunteer [year] to only the four current years and anyone that gets to year five they'd get just the generic Volunteer badge or remove the badge.

    EDIT: As for adding a badge to an account. While I stated I'm ambivalent as to many badges, if I don't add a badge to an account it's not that I'm _not_ doing it but rather I just don't _think_ about doing it. I welcome kind nudges via PM.

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    Default Re: Donations



    A kind note to each member who has never given a donation to the group: Please consider doing so.

    Our group has no mandatory dues. The expenses to keep the lights on are covered, voluntarily (by members and even non-members). We are quite casual in how we are organized and have a focus on getting out to wheel - to enjoy friendly relationships with the grand scenery of our back yard while giving back & maintaining our trail system (making our world a better place for our being there).

    Last month, the donation system did not reach its quota. I ended up turning off the donation system before it wrapped into the next month. I thought it a curiosity as it (the donation goal) typically is "filled" in three days.

    As of this note, we are 12 days - almost two weeks - into the following month and we're not even to the 50% mark - thus I'm writing a kind nudge.

    While I am certain the core regular donating members will pitch in and donate, I'm asking those who have never donated to consider doing so. The base donation would be great.

    Membership in our group is not dependent upon dues and makes no distinction to those who donate more than another. All are equal.

    If you have never donated, please consider making a donation. The donation bar is at the top of each screen. You can also click here to donate which uses the PayPal system. If you wish to send paper through the postal service, see this post.

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Donations



    Patrolman previously posted:
    "Jim - would we like to consider quarterly or semi-annually? Annually might make for a big "bar" to reach. Just a thought."

    Yes, I would.

    Monthly is fine by me - it's not a hassle tending donations.

    I am curious if yearly, with an e-mail notification to everyone, would show a more rounded donor pool. I'd give it a whirl at least once.

    Aaron proposed yearly as, if I understand him correctly, it would 1) make the donation number seem larger and thus more people might step up to donate and 2) it would make it easier for him to remember a once-a-year donate.

    I do see your view that the large number might scare people off. If the yearly test falls on its face we could simply take what was donated and have it cover x months and when those months are up we could go back to monthly or eval semi-annual or quarterly.

    Bottom line, I'm not worried about us not coming up with donations to keep the lights on. I am open to suggestions for improvement. I would like to see a more rounded donor pool.

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    Default Re: Donations



    My calculation shows each member would have to donate $3.13 to meet the annual fund drive. The way we have always done this takes individual finances into consideration. We all have times when finances are tight and we can all respect that.

    However, if 30 people donated $25 it would be covered for the year. You guys can do the math so I vote in favor of giving it a try. Jim, sending that e-mail would make a big difference.

    I haven't made a donation myself in a long time but having paid for the initial software and upgrades out of my pocket I thought that was reasonable. Now that quite a bit of time has passed I'll be happy to kick off an annual drive with $50 and welcome others to make a comittment of whatever they're comfortable with donating now as a gesture of support for Front Range 4x4.



    ___________
    Chris in Florida

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    Default Re: Donations



    As for an annual donation process, here we go!

    Folks, from the prior discussion in this thread, we're going to try an annual donation process instead of the monthly donation process. The funds cover keeping this electronic forum online. From prior posts, there are two issues that might be resolved by an annual process: 1) getting more members involved and 2) make it easier for folks to remember when a donation was sent (Did I send one a few months back or not?) If annual, it can reduce those questions.

    Shortly after posting this message, I'll visit the forum software to send an e-mail to all 235 active members. Donation goal will be 12 x $60 = $720. If every member wished to donate equally, the amount would be $3.06.

    I will be curious as to how many first time donation members will decide to become involved.

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    Default Re: Donations



    The donation bar has been turned off. $395 as donated. This covers 6 months (July thru Dec) plus $35 into month seven (Jan). Of the 325 active members, twenty sent in a donation.

    My thought is that "yearly" doesn't work as it could have. Let's try twice per year and see how that works. When this donation amount runs out, a six-month donation will be tried ($360 - $35 overage = $325). The next time the bar will be turned on would be early January.

    Thanks - enjoy the trails with good friends!

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    Default Re: Donations



    How many of the active 325 member actually singed on during the two week period?

    ETA: based on my quick investigation anywhere from 43 to 58 members signed on during the donation period, so 47% to 34% of those members donated.

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    Default Re: Donations



    newracer previously posted:
    "How many of the active 325 member actually singed on during the two week period?

    ETA: based on my quick investigation anywhere from 43 to 58 members signed on during the donation period, so 47% to 34% of those members donated."

    Once again it's all about perspective

    I personally think that being able to raise over 50% of the total needed in two weeks (two of the busiest "off internet" weeks during the year with all the vacations going on) is freaking awesome. And it's nice to hear almost half of the active members during that time were actually able to donate!

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    Default Re: Donations



    The donation bar has been turned off. Donations have trailed off and I didn't like seeing the bar up there "asking".

    For those jumping in, Post 45 started a test at running a "yearly" donation drive in place of the monthly drive.

    Yearly didn't meet the goal - we tried - we found out. We did not complete the goal for a year in the month I wished it to complete. It rolled into a second month (only 1/2 of it) - it still didn't. That's OK, it was a worthy test. Via monthly, we never had a concern for donations to keep the lights on. I could see twice per year (spring / fall perhaps) as the next option.

    The amount collected amounted to $500. The goal was $720 ($60/Mo * 12).

    There were 28 donations from 27 different people. Most were members with three "not logged in" donations arriving. The Max donation was $50 and the Min was $5. Average amount was $17.86. The number of active members on the board is 239 for about 8.85% of the membership donating. Again, donations are not mandatory - being involved with the group and getting out on the trail together - that is the only requirement.

    The $500 equates to eight months ($480) which covers July 2016 through Feb 2017 with $20 rolling into March 2017. In March of 2017 we'll try the twice per year donation process ($360 goal in general but $340 goal for March). Overages always roll forward.

    My thanks to all for keeping the lights on. Summer's still under our feet - let's enjoy some great trails before the snow closes the trails.

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    Default Re: Donations



    Jim,

    I don't always support every forum I visit, many are crawling with ads with paid subforums and all that.

    I don't go on a lot of runs with you guys, but I've got to say you all are the best group of people I've had the pleasure of meeting on the web. I'm happy to support this forum and will gladly do so in the future. You're the best resource I've found for wheeling out here and in general. You all are often more knowledgeable than the folks on the vehicle specific forums I visit.

    Thanks for being the group you are.

  30. The Following 4 Members Say Thanks to JGRubicon For This Post:

    Hypoid (April 5th, 2017),Jim (March 27th, 2017),Patrolman (April 5th, 2017),TJS86TOY (April 14th, 2017)

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