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Thread: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    My apologies if the above comment sounds too 'cheeky'...the intent was aimed more at the reality of $3B shortfall....most likely any and all dollars tied to the state in some way will be considered for whether it it can be re-allocated in some way. But, as much as this discussion has identified some differences of thought, maybe a honest suggestion of solution is worth while to discuss...my thought here is more along the lines that for money to be truly protected from govt access, legislative statue is not enough, as it can be changed. It is almost impossible to draft legislation that is immune from future modification. The only way to secure resources for total control of their use is to make the organization a non-profit. They would not be able to collect user fees - which is a huge source of the revenue - but if there was a way to generate revenue without state required permitting and fees, then the organization could control exactly how the money was used. I am guessing that there were some local OHV non-profits in various areas that did this, but maybe just didn't raise enough funds to have much sway or input with local, state and fed agencies. But here are two examples that are by no means a parallel to the OHV program, but rather just marginally successful cases of public and private non-profits working together.

    The CAIC is near and dear to me....From its own website: The CAIC is a program within the Colorado Department of Natural Resources, a state government agency. They have 20 staff that work out of 8 offices that cover the mountainous areas of Colorado. The CAIC is the public side of the partnership. The mission of the CAIC is to provide avalanche information, education and promote research for the protection of life, property and the enhancement of the state’s economy. These are the folks that produce the weather and backcountry avalanche forecasts. They teach avalanche classes to school kids, university students, and avalanche workers. The CAIC also works with CDOT to reduce the threat of avalanches to the State Transportation System.

    The CAIC is a public entity that gets funding from a variety of public sources - there are no user fees as there are with OHV. Its focus from public funding perspective is to keep roads safe in coordination with CDOT. But the non-profit FoCAIC (friends of CAIC) has helped raise significant funds to partner with CAIC and help bring useful reporting for recreational users. From the website: The FoCAIC is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization that was created to financially support avalanche forecasting and education throughout Colorado. We accomplish this through fundraising that includes grant writing, events, individual fundraising, corporate partnerships, and our annual spring fundraising campaign. The FoCAIC has 2 full time staff members that work out of home offices and from road throughout the winter. FoCAIC also has a small Board of Directors that guides the mission of the organization and oversees the ED. The FoCAIC is the private side of the partnership.

    What is interesting here to me is this - as it sounds a lot like the description of the OHV program: The relationship between the CAIC and the Friends of CAIC is an important public-private partnership that provides backcountry avalanche forecasts for everyone in Colorado–as well as; avalanche education for as many people as we can reach. The partnership allows FoCAIC staff to go to events, write grants, and build partnerships on behalf of the mission. And it keeps the CAIC staff in the snow so they can provide the best avalanche forecasts possible for you, the user.

    Of course I don't know if the amount of funds is anywhere close to OHV, and of course a lot of that comes from the user fees. But its those same user fees that cause the conflict with govt intervention...When we pay for permits, then the state has taken over and regulating access of public land (which some may vehemently oppose on principal - although that is less my concern). When I 'pay' for the permit, I am a consumer paying for the right to access the land....its just an added benefit that those fees normally go to support the usage (albeit a legally required benefit for as long as the legislative statue goes unchanged). But its not a voluntary contribution - it is a user fee (let it be noted that many people also donate to the OHV fund - I can truly empathize with those who donated significant cash to the OHV fund only to see it get used in another manner). Anyway, the only way to avoid this issue is to have a non-profit that partners with public organizations - its worked sorta ok for 14ers initiative, and seems to be growing nicely with CAIC (albeit I believe with much smaller budget numbers). Just something to think about.

    PS - Despite my arguments that it might be okay for the govt taking and using 5 million from the OHV fund for other purposes in this year, I do support OHV trail work. I'd be more than happy to help offset any pain and suffering caused here through volunteering to help with trail work with Trailridge Runners (do I have correct group?). Or if you start up a non-profit, I'll donate - which is saying a lot to for a person about to be unemployed (of course, I will be donating more to other causes that I feel are more important than OHV work at this time).


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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    Jim previously posted:
    "The parent's have a chat with the kids and state - we need the money more than you do - and want to (are going to) take the funds. The kids don't have much say in the matter. They're now stuck - the grass is growing and they have no mower to cut the grass for those people that paid money for the service / feature. Even if they could borrow a mower, they don't have money for gas to run it. They are put in a bind because the p's took funds that they needed to fulfill a contract with their customers."

    Your analogy is pretty good...and as parents you have the authority to do exactly that, might even be encouraged to do that if its for the betterment of the family in general - say to purchase food or rent payments. Kids can't mow grass much if they don't eat or have to stay in a homeless shelter on the other side of town. Like it or not, the govt is the parents in this analogy...
    ___________
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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    Well, they may take my money after I spent it on an OHV permit, but they cant take my time after I spend it cleaning up our sponsored trails.

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    So the state's budget shortfall is estimated at $3B from last year which is about 10% of the total budget. Do you think they would even consider only taking 10% form the OHV fund?

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    newracer previously posted:
    "So the state's budget shortfall is estimated at $3B from last year which is about 10% of the total budget. Do you think they would even consider only taking 10% form the OHV fund?"

    That sure sounds like a reasonable compromise. I suspect if they plan to raid the fund, they'll take it all, but it's worth suggesting the 10% idea to the people responsible for this.

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    Update from COHVCO

    We did want to provide an update on the OHV fund situation after a week of hearings with the Joint Budget Committee. RIGHT NOW WE ARE CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISITIC.
    Here is why:
    1. Your comments were definitely heard by the JBC, so thanks to everyone that commented. We think they made a difference.
    2. Things are very unsettled in general in Denver and this issue is a long ways from completely resolved. We will continue monitoring the situation and update as necessary.
    3. The OHV fund has come up with the JBC once and was declined to pursue. This could come back up as there is a large shortfall in the state budget.

  8. The Following 3 Members Say Thanks to newracer For This Post:

    FINOCJ (May 18th, 2020),Getaklu (May 18th, 2020),Jim (May 18th, 2020)

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    Another update from COHVCO

    We did want to provide an update on the OHV fund situation after last week. The joint budget committee adjourned without addressing the OHV fund again, which is good. A large number of pieces of legislation are being addressed this week and right now nothing appears to be addressing the OHV fund. WE REMAIN CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC.

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    Its too bad they decided to balance the budget on the backs of k-12 education and on seniors with fixed income. I for one am going to vote against all incumbents.

    This is the program that they dumped causing more expense to seniors.
    https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/tre...y-tax-programs

    This cost me about $800. Personally I would have preferred they take the Ohv funds, but understand the positions expressed previously.
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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    Tom previously posted:
    "Its too bad they decided to balance the budget on the backs of k-12 education and on seniors with fixed income. I for one am going to vote against all incumbents.

    This is the program that they dumped causing more expense to seniors.
    https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/tre...y-tax-programs

    This cost me about $800. Personally I would have preferred they take the Ohv funds, but understand the positions expressed previously."

    I have voted anti-incumbent several times.

    How long has that program been in place?

    As I said before the shortfall is only ~10% which matches the budget of just a few years ago, shouldn't be too hard to adjust for.

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    newracer previously posted:
    "I have voted anti-incumbent several times.

    How long has that program been in place?

    As I said before the shortfall is only ~10% which matches the budget of just a few years ago, shouldn't be too hard to adjust for."

    I believe 2007

    Its over 100 mil for k-12
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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    So with K-12 at a loss, "we" will be asked to approve some new social ill (heroine, meth, etc.) to make up tax revenue because "IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN."

    `curious how the children get abused yet again by politicians. Wasn't lottery income supposed to be "for the children"? Wasn't THC income supposed to be "for the children"?

    UGH

    (am I sarcastic much )

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    From COHVCO Facebook post

    WE STOPPED THE RAID OF $5 MILLION DOLLARS FROM THE OHV FUND!
    The Colorado General Assembly has adjourned for the year and we are pleased to inform you the $5 million initially targeted by the Legislative Joint Budget Committee (JBC) to sweep from our OHV Fund, is still safely residing in the Fund. You, the OHV community including our 4wd and snowmobile members, sent objections to the Joint Budget Committee and they heard you.
    Specifically, State Representative Kim Ransom (R), District 44, Douglas County stated in no uncertain terms she would not support a Bill to sweep our fund. Since any Bill that originates in the JBC must be unanimous, that was the end of any JBC Bill. Subsequently, no other legislator sought to run a Bill to take the cash funds while the Long Bill (State Budget) was going through the process.
    Thanks to COHVCO, TPA and CSA and the COHVCO government relations crew, your position was hear loud and clear We must now work with Parks and Wildlife to lower that cash amount that could be swept through perhaps an additional grant cycle, to make the target we carry on our backs smaller next year as COVID will only make the circumstance even worse than this year’s $3.3 billion deficit that had to be made up with cuts and federal funding.
    Again, those of you who stepped, wrote an email, left a message with JBC members showed what our grassroots can do, even when other states were raiding their OHV funds during this crisis.
    Your organizations did their best to explain that as the Governor sent people by the tens of thousands into the backcountry to use trails for recreation, someone needed to help keep them open. With the FS and BLM out of action, vandalism and abuse of the backcountry by urbanites who lack the necessary ethics will have an impact. They will use and abuse trails and that certainly includes non-motorized and mechanized users who pay nothing extra for the use of trails.
    Now send a personal thank you to Rep Kim Ransom and drop a thank you to the rest.

    Hon. Kim Ransom kim.ransom.house@state.co.us
    Hon. Bob Rankin bob.rankin.senate@state.co.us
    Hon. Dominick Moreno dominick.moreno.senate@state.co.us
    Hon. Rachel Zenzinger senatorrachelz@gmail.com
    Hon. Daneya Esgar daneya.esgar.house@state.co.us
    Hon. Julie McCluskie julie.mccluskie.house@state.co.us

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    Jim (June 16th, 2020),open_circuit (June 16th, 2020),Tom (June 16th, 2020)

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    In case you're worried the pot money isn't going to schools as the law was written. It's more money to schools but that doesn't magically fix everything. I worked as a shop manager at D.P.S. for 8 years in facilities maintenance. With 170+ sites the district planning department had identified nearly $1 billion in deferred maintenance to include things like pavement, roofs, old corroded water and sewer pipes, electrical, HVAC etc.

    No complaining about administrators being over paid can make up for that kind of funding short fall. That's just 1 district it a state full of them.

    https://www.cde.state.co.us/communic...rijuanarevenue

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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    Denver teachers are being asked to relinquish all gains they made from their contract negotiations from their strike last fall.

    My wife is a teacher n Longmont and she is being asked to do double the work for the same pay. Has to prepare lessons for in person AND remote learning.

    Teachers and kids are bing screwed as usual.
    ___________
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    Default Re: Theft of $5 Million in CO OHV Funds at Stake!!!



    Tom previously posted:
    "Denver teachers are being asked to relinquish all gains they made from their contract negotiations from their strike last fall.

    My wife is a teacher n Longmont and she is being asked to do double the work for the same pay. Has to prepare lessons for in person AND remote learning.

    Teachers and kids are bing screwed as usual."

    for those exact reasons and the increased risk of C19 if some sort of traditional school schedule is used with fall flu season, I have no interest in continuing to work in the field.
    ___________
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    1970 CJ5
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