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Thread: 58 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    No...parts are fine, just user error with the press. Learning as I go, and trying not to screw stuff up too bad. Hopefully mainshaft assembly will start to go quicker...but then getting the jumble of countershaft, mainshaft and input shaft all back into the case properly with bearings will probably be a PITA....
    ___________
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    1970 CJ5
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    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    A bit of progress...all bushings and synchro hubs pressed on etc...one side of mainshaft complete.... doesn't seem like a lot, but I am slow and only get a couple hours every so often.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "only get a couple hours every so often."

    You're skiing up there, no? Teaching / guiding?

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Yup....in the middle of a 14 day straight work stretch. My place is nicely located within walking distance to work, but no garage or workshop (just a condo), so I have to travel an hour to town (west yellowstone) to a friends house with garage etc. Was trying to come down once a week on my day off, but sometimes it just doesn't happen.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    An update....progress has been slow and I damaged some more good parts so more delays....but....
    thought made some progress finishing the mainshaft with install into case...but initial inspection suggests there is too much movement in 1st gear...it can rub on the inside of the case...


    turns out I left out a thrust washer that goes behind the output bearing....


    But somehow when putting it back together, I was too focused on figuring out the asymmetrical stepped thrust washer and somehow forgot the bearing snap ring and started pressing on the bearing with the bearing backwards. By the time I realized it, the snap ring groove is too far into the case to get the splitter on it to pull it...


    Had to pull the rear bearing back off again, but with the snap ring inside the case, there is nothing for the bearing puller to grab onto. The mainshaft can't slide back enough as 1st gear hits the case, and can't slide forward enough to pull through and remove as the bearing doesn't allow the rear of the shaft to tip down so the other end can raise up to clear gears on the counter shaft. Had to cut some grooves into the bearing for the bearing splitter to grab onto and then order a new bearing and wait a few weeks....and did some drinking....


    Finally, thought I got it all back together nicely, and end play still wasn't right...after checking the output end of the mainshaft a few times, d
    ecided some of the issue might be associated with the input shaft. According to the schematic, there is supposed to be a lock ring outside the front bearing (#4)...


    It should go in this groove:


    But when the bearing was pressed on, there was no way it would go on far enough to expose the lock ring groove. It seemed the bearing should slide all the way up against the 'shoulder step' the oil slinger is on, but I put A LOT of pressure on it with the 12 ton press and the bearing was bottomed out in terms of movement when it reaches the inner groove, but would not slid over it. I was initially thinking the bearing was too thick, but this is the correct 'thinner' (.63") 211 bearing from Novak kit.


    dammit! just figured it out today....What a effing stupid moron I've been. I had the base plates set-up wrong on the press....the pilot/clutch tip of the shaft is very small diameter, but of course, the section of the shaft that the bearing slides over and that the snap ring goes on is larger diameter....I wasn't allowing enough clearance with the support plates for the larger section of the shaft to slide through - that is why it was always getting stuck flush with the front edge and cover the snap ring groove. The really stupid part is I did it that way in Montana a couple weeks ago, and now I am home in my own garage set-up and did it same stupid way. Heating the bearing allowed it to slip fit on almost all the way down - it slid so far on that the large diameter portion of the shaft began to come out. When I went to set it on the press plates I realized the through hole was too small...a block of wood and hammer tap and it dropped right one. I am too annoyed to be happy or even relieved....
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Now it looks right....front and rear bearings setting all the way in and the large first gear has proper clearance from the rear of the case....
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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  10. #167
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon




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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    ok...think that is it, counter shaft bearings installed...still need to test fit the top cover on and shift through gears, but manually moving the shift collars seems to work....found reverse....



    Need to put the Novak D18 adapter plate on - which also acts as the rear bearing cap and holds stuff in place - and then begin disassembly of the D18....I probably should have done some test fitting of the two pieces with empty cases, but will have to make due.

    Its time to get the cj ready for going to moab with an ecj5 member....went and brought it home, its been in garage storage at my parents since beginning of December...started right up and no obvious leaks or issues. check a few fluids, tire pressure and disconnect the drive shaft....maybe run it long enough to get it up to temp and make sure no coolant leaks.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    That is some major surgery you have going on there. Thanks for all of the progress reports, it's a fun read for us even if it isn't always fun for you.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Don't be so hard on yourself, it sounds like you've got busy-guy problems, not "effing stupid moron" ones. It's so easy to miss little details when you've got a lot going on, especially in multiple locations. At least you figured it out on the bench and not on the trail!

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Paul previously posted:
    "Don't be so hard on yourself, it sounds like you've got busy-guy problems, not "effing stupid moron" ones. It's so easy to miss little details when you've got a lot going on, especially in multiple locations. At least you figured it out on the bench and not on the trail! "

    Two days back in my own garage really helped....I found it difficult to work in someone else's space (and tools), and getting to work on it once a week instead of everyday really caused me start-stop problems with trying to figure out where I left off, what was next etc....a lot of wasted time regrouping and probably led to some mistakes that I had to redo. Without a doubt, the sm465 is a much more tedious transmission rebuild than the T14 I did previously, or the D18 transfer case...in some ways, even the locker install with setting R&P backlash etc seemed to go smoother (albeit I wasn't setting up from scratch so pinon depth wasn't as bad as it could have been)....If I ever get this 58 project done, I have a 4:1 T18 4speed to go into the cj5 - from what I gather, it'll be between the T14 and sm465 in terms of rebuild difficulty, but I think it will have a mainshaft replacement as well - so its not trivial. By that time, I might be so sick of old jeeps that I buy something new, pay for shop labor to install a kit and just drive it.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Progress continues...the D18 transfercase is fully disassembled now...lots of cleaning to do...


    and the beast sm465 is waiting...It all assembled, but haven't sealed the gaskets or anything until I know it will mate properly with the D18...it also will need paint. I'll feel like some progress is made when the sm465/D18 combo is fully together...then the sbc350 can go to the shop for machine work...I need to clean and organize the workbench....honestly, I don't want to lift the 175lbs sm465 to the floor and mess up my back with our big river trip coming up. I need to be able to oar the rig through solid whitewater, and the last time I really carried that thing around, I think I tweaked my back so, it stays on the bench taking up space until we get back.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    [QUOTE=FINOCJ;341993]I need to be able to oar the rig through solid whitewater, and the last time I really carried that thing around, I think I tweaked my back so, it stays on the bench taking up space until we get back.[/QUOTE]

    Winch + snatch block on your ceiling + lifting strap => overhead hoist to get it up in the air?

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    [QUOTE=open_circuit;341994]
    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "I need to be able to oar the rig through solid whitewater, and the last time I really carried that thing around, I think I tweaked my back so, it stays on the bench taking up space until we get back.[/QUOTE]

    Winch + snatch block on your ceiling + lifting strap => overhead hoist to get it up in the air?"

    Maybe it could just stay in the air (albeit a hanging death trap) - could use both the bench and floor space. Reality, I could just move it with the engine hoist (there is a step in the concrete at the front of the garage where the bench is - I think the picker could reach over that)....but too lazy for now, and leaving town tomorrow. But, in any future home/garage that I have some construction say in, I will definitely be putting a winch/pulley anchor point into the concrete slab at the front of the garage so I can winch a vehicle in or out (and ceiling anchor/hoist point would also be good). I guess when the driveway is flat, its not that hard to push a jeep around, but my current driveway is pretty steep - it takes 4-5 people to push the wagon up into the garage if it can't do it under its own power.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Thinking what might throw my back out is moving around rocket boxes full of beer - 49 beers fits very nicely, but not quire enough space to lay a couple in long ways on the top. That would be 49 silver bullets in an ammo can....
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Now that things are mostly back to normal after the canyon trip, its time for cleaning and rebuild of the D18 with new bearings and intermediate shaft etc...Trying a new way of doing some cleaning (Novak says it works well):


    If you don't hear from me in a few days, you'll know why....
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Yeah my wife would have me shot!
    Watch your back!
    ___________
    My wife left me because I'm so insecure.
    Oh wait never-mind, she just went to the store.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    This worked pretty well. It leaves a flash rust on the surface, but it takes off all the oily residue that its really hard to get rid off and helps loosen up and get a lot of the stuff out of the nooks and crannies. I didn't trust the flash rust on gears and splined internals etc, so those are soaking in a bucket with degreaser and will be hand wiped down to get the carbonized gunk off - besides a little oil coating on those is fine as they will get more during re-assembly. I just did the case, pan and bearing caps. The flash rust comes off easily with a rag or wire brush - used a little dremmel to get in the tight spaces. It already had been hand scraped, but I want to try painting one, and just didn't think I could get all the oily residue off by hand...It will still get a rag wipe with laquer thinner or the like before painting, but this just seemed like it would help. I wanted to do this with the sm465, but the option was not there - so it will get the hand wipe down treatment and it was not covered in oily gunk anyway (must have gotten some serious cleaning by the PO). Would do it again for sure....YFYL (your wife, your life)....some pics:
    the flash rust coming out of the washer:


    after a few minutes cleaning up with a wire wheel, brush and rag:
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Making some progress getting the transfer case back together...there are two big steps that are kind of a PITA and its good to get past them....
    First one is the intermediate shaft install (one on the right). What looks like 2 gears on opposite sides of the case is actually a single cluster gear that has a couple sets of loose needle bearings that go inside the gear tunnel and spin on the intermediate shaft....you have to get all 30-something needle bearings in place holding them in with something like assembly lube or vasoline, and then slide the gear (and thrust washers) down into the case and then slide/tap the intermediate shaft through the cluster gear tunner without knocking any of the needle bearings out....



    Next up, the rear bearing shim pack that goes between the case and rear bearing cap is always a fun part of rebuilding a D18. The output shaft has to have endplay between .004-.008" and thin steel shims are stacked to provide the right clearence and preload to the bearing. Actually, the test fitting isn't so hard, its the scramble to get all the shims coated with sealant on both sides and installed nice and clean without messing up the sealant coating - this is a spot than can cause a lot of oil leak.



    Have to install the shift rail poppet balls and springs, rail seals and both input and output shaft seals. Going to get new yoke nuts from FLAPS and it should be done. I left the shift rail interlock pin out, so I will full twin stick functionality - in other words, 2hi-2lo-4hi-4lo. I wouldn't do this with something like a newer D300 etc (although lots of people do without issue), but the dual rail system of the D18 will not allow for accidental cross-shift (front axle in hi and rear in lo or vice versa) which can be disastrous. Not sure I will ever use 2lo - especially with the granny low first gear in the sm465 - but might as well have it available. Need to wrap this up and then test fit mating it to the sm465 with the adapter and new mainshaft. I expect I may have some clearance issues with the transfer case shift tower against the sm465, but we'll see. Going to lazy man way and going to paint the entire set-up afterwards. Hopefully the engine goes to the machine shop this week.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Think the D18 is done...tested all the shift positions including 2 low (as I removed the interlock pin). A couple little exterior things left until test fitting to the sm465 is finished...



    The Dana 18 shift lever housing will need a bit of grinding to clearance the side of the sm465 case...but it doesn't look like it is going to need much....
    Here it is with no grinding on the first test fit...you can see the D18 will not quite clock right - needs to rotate CCW just a bit:


    I did a bit of grinding on both the shift housing and a tiny bit on the case - and its really close....didn't have time to finish it up today, but hopefully tomorrow it will get finalized.

    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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