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Thread: 58 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I have had a big concern about the brake pedal...in OEM configuration there was going to be an issue with not enough space between the gas pedal and brake pedal to safely move my right foot back and forth - this is due to the sm465 needing a much bigger hole and taking up much more width of tunnel area...it will stick up about vertically about 3 inches from the side of the hole pictured - so moving the gas pedal further right is not much of an option...

    The brake pedal has both a bend to the right (passenger), as well as the pedal pad (not pictured) is offset to the right (passenger) that allow it to avoid conflict with the steering column....




    So I decided to just cut the end of the pedal arm off with the 'L' offset section and round pad, flip it 180 degrees and weld it back on....My welding skills are rough, but as I think its cast steel, I might have a chance. Figure its worth a shot as if it doesn't work, then its hanging pedals, but might as well try this first?
    Results - Far from perfect but think the extra inch it gives should help ...didn't get the front face angle quite right. but it should work well enough for now...If I can figure out the clutch linkage, and its all nice good, I could always cut it and try again.



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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    With the new steering column, I had to come up with a way to mount it. I used the existing behind dash re-enforced bracket - some POs home fab job, but seems pretty functional - and bolted a 2", no-drop, non-adjustable column clamp for that. Then the floor needed some work...I think the original pedal floor panel access was a 2-piece deal such that you could remove the 2 pieces without removing the pedals and arms. In theory this is nice, but practically, I felt the split floor panel wasn't rigid enough for the column floor mount, and there was also 2 different column holes in it (one from the ross box, and one from the FSJ column)....so i welded it all up and cut a new hole appropriate for the ididit style column and used this borgeson floor mount. Yes, the single piece floorpan is a bit more hassle, but the real issue is with the steering column mount as you can't remove the pedals until the entire floor panel is removed, and you can' do that until the steering column is removed - so it didn't really hurt going to the 1-piece floor panel - its going to be a bit of a PITA whether 1 or 2 piece.

    I already disassembled the seat and painted the bracket set-up, otherwise I'd have a complete pic, but seems like its going to work and be a comfortable driving position (tilt wheel). I still don't love the pedal arrangement (and yes, the lack of symmetry with the column and bracket is bothersome to my eye), but going to give it a try as is. The column is raw steel, so will need painted...All of these various column clamps etc have very tight fit - I had to lightly sand the inside of the borgeson floor mount just to get the column to slide through - and painting is just going to make stuff more difficult to work with. Thinking of painting with the clamps on, and just reinstalling as a complete unit.
           
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Well, one step forward, and then another wall...doing some detailed cleaning of the intake I wanted to use - its a sbc350 intake from 1970 that was on the sbc283 when I got it. It was going to be a good match for the 487 iron heads I am putting on it, and had the thermal coil choke mount that goes with my q-jet as well as had no EGR aspects....but cleaning found a crack going down between the secondary inlets. I spent quite a bit of time with the machine shop trying to decide how to build the engine....partially because of this intake, I decided to keep the old school aspect, and go all iron heads and intake, and the shop owner found me the 487 heads as an improvement over the 882 smog heads that came on the 1978 sbc350. I do have the 1978 intake, and I guess that will be option number two...it has EGR ports I will have to block off as well as no mount for the choke coil - so not sure if my q-jet will work with it. And of course, back to considering an aftermarket intake as well....I wish I would have seen this first, as I might have gone all out with new aftermarket aluminum heads and intake from the beginning.
         
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I see the crack - could you post an overview picture?

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Not sure how big of an issue it is....its on the divider between the 2 plenums on the large 2ndaries below the carb....not sure if this really helps....
    here is a CL add for an almost identical intake - its just slightly newer than mine....also helps with the big picture
    https://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts...339306036.html
         
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    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Totally helps - thanks.

    No water jack issues and now seeing the U-channel between the plenums, near zero pressure differential. In general, I'd run it as-is for an occasional "monitor the crack" to see if it grows.

    Do you think it could grow, unexpectedly (while you're out driving) to a catastrophic condition (leaving you limping home or at the roadside)? I'm leaning to "no" / no worries / use it.

    edit: I sent your pictures to my professional auto mechanic buddy asking his opinion. I'll update when I hear back.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    The reply:

    No coolant near there…. Use it !

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    FINOCJ (August 13th, 2021)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    It wouldn't be impossible to weld that crack up and machine the bores again. I don't know if that would be cheaper than just buying another cast intake.
    ___________
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    If you can't fix it with a hammer or duct tape you have an electrical problem

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    derf previously posted:
    "I don't know if that would be cheaper than just buying another cast intake."

    I'd probably just buy an aluminum edelbrock performer style intake if buying new....As I am cheap, and many have said it won't matter much, I am going to give it a run as is...getting some fresh paint on it:

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "I am going to give it a run as is...getting some fresh paint on it"

    The best look'n, hidden crack east of the Divide...

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    FINOCJ (August 14th, 2021)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Got the engine block and heads back from the machine shop a couple weeks ago. The block was original 4.00" bore size, so now its .030 over. The shop installed the various plugs and cam bearings, but the rest of the bottom end will be up to me.


    I decided to stay with a sort of late 60's/early 70s style 4x4 build. Will try to run the non-egr 1969 cast iron intake with q-jet. Stayed with 70s style cast iron heads, but switched from the late 70's 882 casting that I had to the early 70s 993 casting which should be a small upgrade in durability as its a 'heavier casting' and maybe just a bit of low end performance....both are large 75cc chambers and open chamber 'smog' style so basically the same. OEM versions of these heads would have been matched to the early 70s non-EGR intake I am running, but these heads are aftermarket GM crate engine with the desired 'hecho in Mexico' stamp.


    This head swap was an engine shop focus - I don't think there was anything wrong with the 882 heads for my purpose. Really, I am not to concerned one way or another - its not a performance build. The heads and valve seats were completely redone, new rocker studs, valves etc, but no porting or grinding in the valve area. CR will stay about the same and run on low grade pump gas. The cam is flat tappet style stock replacement as well. Its going to have plenty of power in that form, and probably enough to risk the 70 year old axles if I get a bit too rowdy as is. I just want it to be a good runner....If at some point I want some improvement, aftermarket aluminum heads, intake and or TBI are all options for improvement, and possibly a new cam....but that would be a long ways off....These old willys originally came with a F134 4cyl with 70hp gross...or the optional L6-226 with 110hp gross...this sbc350 will probably be around 190-200hp net...hopefully it blows up u-joint/driveshaft before the axles....

    Got the block painted - will soon begin assembling the bottom end and checking clearances...


    The transmission and transfer case are also pretty much ready to go...a lot of time sealing gaskets etc (the sm465 has 6 total gaskets: 2 PTO covers, FBR, front lower counter shaft bearing, rear output and top cover).



    Still need to order some parts - flywheel, clutch etc....
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    speedkills (September 23rd, 2021),Tom (September 23rd, 2021)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Parts always look sooo nice when clean and sparkly

    Congrats on a nice move forward.

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    FINOCJ (September 23rd, 2021)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Damn those look good.

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    FINOCJ (September 23rd, 2021)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "Parts always look sooo nice when clean and sparkly"

    so true....
    speedkills previously posted:
    "Damn those look good."

    wish they would stay that way....but its going to leak oil and after a while they'll look just like all the other ones....
    ___________
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    From your comment that it'll leak oil...

    One tidbit I learned from my mechanic buddy (who commented on your intake man crack). He replaced the oil pan gasket on the car a couple weeks back. He paid very detailed attention to getting the sealing surfaces clean (duh) and FREE OF ANY OIL. The zero oil issue was news to me (perhaps not you).

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    It all gets dirty, but at least you'll have clean pictures to look back on fondly.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Great work, do you feel that your welding skills are improving with more use?

    Also, good luck buying an Edelbrock performer. I'm still waiting for mine and I ordered it in May I think... although we seem to have opposite problems, I need EGR and you need it blocked.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "One tidbit I learned from my mechanic buddy (who commented on your intake man crack). He replaced the oil pan gasket on the car a couple weeks back. He paid very detailed attention to getting the sealing surfaces clean (duh) and FREE OF ANY OIL. The zero oil issue was news to me (perhaps not you)."

    Oh yea....clean both mating surfaces with brake cleaner and/or laquer thinner....absolutely free of anything, and also for them to me flat. It took me a few hours to do the 6 gaskets on the sm465 as I take a lot of time trying to get it perfect. For thinner stamped pans/valve covers etc, there is a tendency for the holes to get dimpled in from overtightening, so I go through and hammer them flat, then file or even put a flap disk on the surface to clean it up and flatten it out. Typically what leaks is not the gaskets, but on the D18, its the rear bearing cap spacers - there is no gasket on it (its a 70+ year old design), and the bearing preload is controlled by the metal shims. Typically, these days, some sort of ultra thin, spray on sealant is used on the shims (have to be careful not to add too much thickness and throw off the preload/endplay), but when you have 4-5 shims stacked between the cap and housing, that is a lot of potential seems directly into the main oil cavity that develop leaks (and the spray gasket stuff sort of works, but I don't think its all that durable). Plus, the other part that leaks is the output seals - especially the rear output which is always in use on the D18 (even in 2wd). There is a classic seal that the output shaft spins through, and given the cheap quality of materials these days, it doesn't take long for that seal to deteriorate. Plus after many years of grit and whatnot collecting, the seal can start to rub a groove into the shaft which only makes the seal less functional. Additionally, many of the bolts are threaded into open holes that go through into central cavity (filled with oil). So all of those have to be very clean and thread sealant used. It all works, but basically, there was never an interest to have a leak free vehicle when jeeps were designed in the 40s for the military. So even though mine is only a 58 or a 70, it uses the exact same set-up as a 40's WWII jeep - old technology. The original manuals on these things talk about redoing all this stuff every 10,000 miles (and full rebuilds with new intermediate shafts and needle bearings every 50-60k miles) - same with diff fluids and what not. Some of that was the quality and quick deterioration of old oils, but usage and manufacturing tolerances where much different then. When I redid the D18 on the cj5, I installed all the parts, filled it up with fluid, and let it sit overnight (didn't run it) - damn if there wasn't a small puddle in the morning just from sitting! Actually, that turned out to be a through bolt I forgot to thread seal, but there are just so many possible passageways for oil to leak. It'll be dry for a year or so, but after a few years it'll find its way through somewhere. Its probably time to redo all the seals on the cj5 D18.

    TyTheJeepGuy previously posted:
    "Great work, do you feel that your welding skills are improving with more use?"

    Some of it is...but not as much as I hoped. The upgrade to the Hobart 140 welder and more voltage options has also helped. I am learning to be more patient and let the weld puddle develop more and not rush through (thin sheet metal not included). But as a high school teacher, there was a lot of recent push to have students learn more on their own through problem based learning, and to provide them the resources needed to complete the task, as opposed to more traditional direct instruction. Supposedly this helps keeps students more engaged....but at some point, there is a frustration level of always trying to teach yourself, even when you have good resources such as books, videos, web instruction etc....at some point, there is HUGE value in having direct person to person. I bet one half day with a skilled welder would do me more good than the last 3 years on my own.

    TyTheJeepGuy previously posted:
    "Also, good luck buying an Edelbrock performer. I'm still waiting for mine and I ordered it in May I think... although we seem to have opposite problems, I need EGR and you need it blocked."

    I think that is because of the AMC 360 intake is much more rare than a sbc intake. I am going to try re-using and OEM cast iron intake without EGR, but there are lots of used sbc Performer intakes on CL/FB for both spread bore and square bore as well as with or without the EGR. I am not necessarily a 'sbc is the best engine ever' - this is the first one I've owned...but can't argue with the overwhelming amount of aftermarket support and products available. Just so many of these engines out there. Honestly, I think an AMC 304 with T15/D20 combo would be a great set-up in the old Willys (as would a SBF 302 with T18/D20), and the power would be more appropriate (in other words, not overpowered for the components), and it would keep a bit of the jeep lineage. But the cost of a 304/360 build and parts is twice that of a sbc.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "I think that is because of the AMC 360 intake is much more rare than a sbc intake."

    I was surprised by this. With how the 27 ish years of FSJ models using AMC V8s and their design staying more or less the same across V8 engines I thought parts availability would be higher. Also they were in the AMC cars, I guess they were popular in the Police Dept Ambassadors but maybe not abundant.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    TyTheJeepGuy previously posted:
    "I was surprised by this. With how the 27 ish years of FSJ models using AMC V8s and their design staying more or less the same across V8 engines I thought parts availability would be higher. Also they were in the AMC cars, I guess they were popular in the Police Dept Ambassadors but maybe not abundant."

    Yes...but compared to the Gen I sbcv8 produced from 1955 to 1987, and somewhere around 100,000,000 total sbc's sold, its not even close. Plus, there are a lot of carryover parts from Gen I to Gen II vortecs...AMC did some cool stuff, but they just weren't in the same size category. When AMC was selling 10,000 of a model, Chevy was selling 100,000 or more. The Gen I sbc is the most produced engine block ever - by far - especially when you add in the aftermarket crate engine production...But I also think the Gen I is starting to pass into history as well, with the 5.3 LS v8 becoming to go to engine for everything.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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