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Thread: 58 Willys Wagon

  1. #221
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I don't see why anything you're doing now will end up leaking oil, at least not for quite a few years, you've really kept up the attention to detail. It all looks great, and it's going to be pretty cool to see a Willys Wagon with zero miles on the drivetrain.

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    FINOCJ (September 27th, 2021)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Small little steps....went old school and checked bearing clearance with plastigage....everything looked okay

    Crank and mains are in....


    Pistons and connecting rods tomorrow...maybe cam etc...Jen has me on evening social event in a bit, so have to wrap it up for the night.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Wait, what replaced plasti-gage? I thought it was still the state of the art, now I just feel old.

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    FINOCJ (September 27th, 2021)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    speedkills previously posted:
    "Wait, what replaced plasti-gage? I thought it was still the state of the art, now I just feel old."

    I assume you used some when setting the preload on the kingpin bearings when adapting to the portal axles....or did you go with the walmart fish scale technique? If you need any extra, I got some. I actually found some at FLAPS down the street - it may have been the last package sitting on the shelf in the metro. I had to educate the counter person what it was for. He said in something like 7 years or so, I was only 2nd person to ever buy any...Of course, the same thing happens when you try to buy points or a condenser...Even a timing light is hard to find these days. Its not that you are old...just an old soul maybe. I mean, that 2011 mercedes is over a decade old....just think of all the fancy schmancy stuff you are missing out on the new ones.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I didnít end up setting the preload. I wasnít able to get the correct shims until yesterday so now I have to pull it apart again to do it.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    today's progress...just a little bit at a time...small, baby steps...pistons, rings, connecting rods all good to go...most of you have probably seen or done this stuff before, but since its my first engine build, I took a few extra photos of simple stuff, but didn't get the photo with blood dripping down the cylinder wall...blood is a good lubricant right? Took me a bit this morning to figure out a good system or process, but after the first two, it went smoothly - I think my next engine is going to be a 4cyl.
    start with getting the rings on the piston:


    Then a ring compressor sleeve:


    Before inserting the piston into the block, I did put the upper half of the bearing shell on the c-rod, lube etc...but then its time to slide the assembly into the cylinder and easy tap the piston into the block:


    the bottom end all done and torqued:


    from the top:
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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  11. #227
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Today was more of the little tedious stuff....some clearances checked, crank keys and timing sprocket went on, oil pump fitted and the pick-up screed depth was set, cam installed and degreed, and I confirmed a proper TDC pointer for the new harmonic balancer. I also meant to get the dowel pins installed in the deck for the heads, but forgot - got distracted playing around with the cam and taking measurements (and also went down a couple of rabbit holes reading all about cams).

    A lot of hard core builders don't want to hear it, but the engine shop basically said we'd never discourage you from checking all clearances, but reality is, you could build 1000 of these completely stock 350 truck builds with the off the shelf parts, and never find one that had an issue. Its really only an issue when you start mixing and matching and building non-standard stuff, or push the performance envelope to the max. Mine is bored .030 over with the crank journals undersized by 0.010 - about as standard as it gets. So I am checking stuff to confirm and learn, but I am not stressing too much about it, and in some cases, I am making do with non-ideal measurement tools (like I didn't spend the money for a good bore diameter tool). There is probably more error in my measurements than there is in the machine and production work. But so far, I have not found anything that is concerning anyway...crank main #1 was on the tight side (using plastigage), otherwise everything else seems pretty good. Also checked the rod journal width/side play in the rods, piston to deck clearance, etc, and a bunch of cam degree checks today as well. Its a stock cam - total valve is lift is only like .390/.410 using 1.5 rockers, so it not even close to causing issues anywhere in the valve train.

    Here is the new oil pump, and I added a new pick-up as well as one of the few 'upgrades' from stock I am doing, which is the metal collar/sleeve on the pump driveshaft instead of the plastic one.


    Getting the new pick-up 'pressed' into the pump is a PITA - no really good way to 'drive' or press it in until I saw a pic in the Atherton book where it looked like an open end wrench could possibly be used to slip over the tube and then you can hammer on the wrench handle right near the open end. It took some rapping, but it worked:



    For as hard as it is to drive the pick-up tube in, it still can rotate somewhat easily, and I guess they have a tendency to move out of position at some later point. I set the depth according to spec, and then put a little tack weld on it (wondering if a modern solution would have just been to use some oil resistant JB weld around the edge).


    Then it was time to move to the cam and timing...I was able to use the dampener that has 90 degrees of markings on it, to make a full 360 tape and used that in place of the traditional degree wheel. Its not accurate to the half degree, but probably to 1-2 degrees, and allowed me to confirm well enough what I needed. Here, getting TDC set, and getting my pointer set:



    And finally, my set-up for measuring the cam lobes using the lifters...cam is OEM replacement, so its minimal lift and relatively short duration (something like 185/195 duration at .050 with lift of .390/.410 - one thing that threw me off, I wasn't expecting a dual profile with the slight differences in the intake and exhaust....). All this work to verify the cam grind and see if the centerline timing was off wouldn't really matter much anyway, as the timing gear and sprocket set I used is fixed, non-adjustable (guess you could use some sort of 'offset bushing') OEM style...so it was more about Cam 101 class today.


    Maybe tomorrow I can kind of make it at least start to look complete...finalize the timing stuff and get the heads on, and then I have to go review how to set valve lash and finish the valve train....Who knows, maybe I can even work on finalizing the intake, oil pan, front cover, water pump etc, and kind of get it all together.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    speedkills (September 30th, 2021)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "(wondering if a modern solution would have just been to use some oil resistant JB weld around the edge)"

    I like your tack weld route. I'd hate to see a small chunk of JB weld, over the years, become dislodged from where it should be and become a hard bit in the oil - to cause problems.

    My `68 Ford wagon 302-v8 had plastic coated timing chain gears (or maybe only one of them). A small bit of plastic (grain of rice) dislodged after the plastic became well old and brittle. That little grain was sucked up into the oil pump which caused the oil pump gears to stop motion and thus the pump's drive shaft to break - instant and 100% valid low oil pressure light with a car at the side of the road.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "My `68 Ford wagon 302-v8 had plastic coated timing chain gears (or maybe only one of them). A small bit of plastic (grain of rice) dislodged after the plastic became well old and brittle. That little grain was sucked up into the oil pump which caused the oil pump gears to stop motion and thus the pump's drive shaft to break - instant and 100% valid low oil pressure light with a car at the side of the road."

    Those plastic coated timing chains were common in the late 60s-70s and caused a lot of issues, albeit after high mileage usage (100k in those days). My 78 sbc probably had that originally (I still have have the timing chain I pulled out in a box - I should see what it is). They seemed to stretch a lot as well - and the one I took out was definitely stretched. The 70 v6 in the cj also had one from the factory in those days. I think the idea was the plastic was a sort of low friction, low wear idea, but not sure plastics engineering was up for it back in the day. Both the v6 and this v8 have all metal replacement chains - but I kept it simple as single chain design, not double chain set-up. There are also aftermarket timing gear sets that eliminate the timing chain all together and just use a 3rd gear between the crank sprocket and cam timing gear. Lots of cool stuff out there. The 58 project as a whole has worn me out, and some of the hassle hasn't probably been worth it, but the engine build was something I have been looking forward to, and its been great so far. As long as I don't trash the cam during start-up and break-in...
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Daily update....A little progress each day....Here is the old dampener:

    I decided to replace it as the sandwiched rubber was cracked and some of the edges seemed to have been torn out - especially in the 10-11 oclock range in the photo.

    Before I could put the heads on, new dowel pins go in the block:


    Then finalized the timing chain/gears, front cover, dampener and pulleys etc, and then put the heads on, torqued in sequence to proper spec:


    Finally, the rest of the valve train - lifters, pushrods, rockers, and valve lash adjusted:


    Feels like its getting close...
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Question....i am getting the oil pan and intake etc on, and then its going to sit for a few weeks before hopefully its fully installed and ready to start and break-in. When the time comes, it'll get standard break-in procedure with oil pump priming beforehand, but wondering if I should add fluid (oil and break-in additive etc) now and prime the pump before it sits for weeks? On previous rebuilt engine (cj v6 done by local shop), I added oil and primed the pump and engine the day I did start-up and break-in. I never thought about it before, but the ready to go engine sat for a few weeks assembled with lube, but no oil or priming. Basically, I don't think it really matters to just let it sit with assembly lube, but just wondering if it might be better to spin the pump and cycle oil through before it sits for a bit. FWIW, the assembly lube is oil soluble.
    ___________
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    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Q: If it was to be a few weeks before you'd get around to assembling - would you oil the unassembled items (perhaps to inhibit rust)?



    I don't think it much matters (49/51%) though I'd lean to wait. `curious to hear other thoughts.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "would you oil the unassembled items (perhaps to inhibit rust)?"

    there won't be anything left unassembled or exposed....it will ready install, complete and gasketed etc. I am just going to be traveling out of town for 10 days, and then I'll probably need at least week to get the engine bay ready, the trans/TC all mated up and bolted in, and then the electrical wired in.
    ___________
    James Orofino
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    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Working on tedious stuff recently...painting lots of little stuff etc....Pretty much finished up with the engine build, but I ran into a annoying issue...the plug for the water jacket port on the side of one of the heads was completely stuck...in trying to get it out, I broke the impact driver off in it. I did get the broken piece out, and tried some more, but at some point, without more heat than I could put to it, it was just rounding out the socket plug. I don't know how I missed this earlier, but I did not want to tear the engine apart to get it out it at this point - so I just had to work around it.


    Anyway, the reason this is an issue is that I need 2 separate access points for temp probes: one for the gauge and one for the electric fan. One of the head ports is good to go, so the temp gauge will go there, but since I am using the old 1970 vintage intake, which only has one water jacket port normally used for heater hose connection, I am back to having to fiddle with some sort of riser neck at the thermostat outlet. The one I used previously on the 283 leaves the thermostat in place at the intake, and is just a spacer below the outlet neck with two 3/8" ports. I put the electric fan temp probe in it last time, and I guess it works, but the temp does make contact with the top of the thermostat housing and there is just a smidge of interference. Plus, I don't love that the temp sensor is downstream of the t-stat, but in reality, the fan wouldn't need to kick on until the t-stat is open.


    I thought I might have had a good solution when I found a t-stat riser with ports that raises the t-stat and goes between the intake and the t-stat, which would place the temp sensor upstream of the t-stat. But the bottom end of the t-stat is larger than the top end, and there is no hope to fit the sensor probe without interfering with the spring action of the t-stat. So I thought I was getting smart and figured that I could just swap the heater hose fitting to port on the riser (and put the temp sensor directly in through the intake)....it looks kind of goofy, and hose routing would be a bit more cumbersome, but I guess it could work:


    Of course, when originally test fitting all the pieces, I wasn't expecting to use a spacer at the t-stat, and the radiator hose neck had plenty of clearance with the high mount alternator. But with the 1" spacer, things don't fit. There is just enough clearance with the alternator adjustment completely maxed out, and I would probably also need to re-clock the alternator so as to not short the +12V terminal to the block.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    So after spending way too much time trying figure out a solution, and investigating various ways to route coolant bypass through multi-valve heater circuit switch etc, I am back to using a water neck that puts the electric fan temp sensor 'downstream' of the t-stat, but hopefully at least it all fits now.

    First, I clocked the case a 1/4 turn to get the +12V terminal away from the thermostat housing neck and give a bit more clearance, and but then another part of the case is interfering with the heater hose nipple.


    If you go another 1/4 turn with clocking, the 2-blade connector is too far down and blocked by the bracket mount, and yet another 1/4 turn puts the +12V down at the bottom and into the manifold....4 positions and all have issues...
    So the final answer....the alternator is clocked, but changed the heater hose outlet and alternator bolt to create clearance, and using the later style water neck with port on the top. The fan sensor doesn't contact the thermostat, but yes, it's downstream of the t-stat so it won't get a proper temp reading until it opens a bit, but if the t-stat is closed, the fan does not need to be running anyway. Like earlier sbc's, there is no coolant bypass although I could run if needed (the water pump does have the bypass inlet that I plugged). For now, the heater flow path has no shut off and will act like a bypass. Eventually it will get a shut off valve/flow control on the heater circuit. I will probably drill a small bubbler hole in the t-stat to get air out, and maybe that will also provide a minute amount of bypass flow. I was originally concerned an air pocket could develop in the neck where the temp sensor port is and disturb the temp reading, but it's smooth round sphere on the inside - same as without the port - so air bubble should not be a problem.

    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Now its time to wrap up the steering....Ever since this project started, I have been fighting figuring out how to route the steering shaft that basically seems set-up to go straight through the motor mount without getting overly complex with the u-joints etc. Basically, I wanted to keep it to 2 u-joints so I didn't have to use a shaft support/carrier bearing. Once you move to 3 single u-joints, or 1 single and 1 double joint, you need the shaft support. I have one single joint at the input to the steering box to replace the old school rag joint, which left me with only 1 additional joint before it got complicated....and a single joint can only handle angles of up to like 35 degrees or so. Anyway, I probably should have done the support shaft and 1 double joint and 1 single (and possible extension shaft at the bottom of the column to bring everything lower to stay under the motor mount), but I am going with the notch out the motor mount to create clearance and use a bit more simple steering shaft linkage...




    So the question becomes...How much clearance does it really need?



    No pictures, but I even got the interior steering column, floor and dash mounts, along with the floor pan and pedals all painted and mounted inside the cab. Assuming it looks as good tomorrow as I think it is now, I hope to get the steering shaft drilled for the ujoint cross-pins, paint everything and finalize install in the next day or two. Then its get the brake system back in, make any changes in brake line routing that is needed, and then its close to time to put the entire drivetrain in a single huge install.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Steering is finalized, brakes MC and lines (with a bit of re-bending) are back in and bled. Starting to come together....


    I didn't paint the aluminum bellhousing, but wondering if I should have...Flywheel, clutch, pilot bearing, fork and TO bearing are all in under the bellhousing and I can go to bed now after midnight and sleep well knowing the input shaft is threaded through. I almost forgot I had to make some minor modifications to the clutch fork before install as I intend to use a pull cable to activate, and the generic sbc forks are set-up for a push linkage - So I drilled a little hole and slot to fit the cable end/adjuster nut thingy. D18 is next, as well as the mini starter motor which may need some clocking. And I am still fighting some issues with the top cover on the sm465, but hope to get that figured out tomorrow. Maybe I might even think about trying to setting it all into the wagon on the mounts. I still have a clutch cable bracket for the D18 to modify or fab. I leave Tues for a bit, and it would be awesome to at least have it bolted in on the mounts and cross-member in....
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "brakes MC and lines (with a bit of re-bending) are back in and bled"

    Congrats!! You mentioned that step could be a tough one.

    Solid progress - sleep well.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Yup, bleeding the front brakes seems to be more difficult than it should be...I put in a Willwood dual circuit MC over a year and a half ago...With that I also had to basically make a new front circuit of brake lines (the OEM single circuit set-up was just a long line that went CW around from the LF to LR, and it also stepped down in size after the RF to normal diameter. So I made an entirely new front circuit, and then made the front half of the rear circuit. and connected it in where the old line diameter change junction was. The rear circuit has been easy and flawless both times I have had to bleed it from scratch, and both times, the front circuit has been a complete PITA. There are things about the Willwood cylinder I don't like, but I think the main problem is at either the flex hoses that got to the wheel cylinder, or the wheel cylinders themselves (which are new last year). The hoses are not new, and probably should be replaced - they may be the problem. It seems I basically have to completely disassemble the rubber hose from the hard line junction and then at the wheel cylinder and ensure fluid is good at each junction, and even then, the bleed volume out of the wheel cylinder is pitiful. And as the drums are 'inboard' style, getting them off to get to the brake components and wheel cylinder requires pulling the hubs, locking hubs and wheel bearing. These brakes are getting replaced next summer. I have a set of 4 11" self-adjusting bendix style backing plates like used on later jeeps and FSJs....I run a pair on the front of the cj5 (10" set on the rear which is OEM. Additionally, I don't want to have to deal with the manual shoe adjuster cams anymore - they are part of the hassle of getting stuff bled as well. Manually adjusted brakes are not a piece of old iron technology that I care to keep around...
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    A little bit of progress today....sm465 top cover and D18 is all installed. Getting the clutch figured out as well....


    The large case D18 clutch cable bracket works quite easily with a little spacer on the small case D18....The cable doesn't pull straight back, but I think it should be fine.


    The cable is my cheap Omix v6/T14 cable that I carry as a spare (they like to break)....assuming it works, I'd order the high quality one from inline tube. But, one thing I was a bit worried about, with the longer 4 speed and adapter, a lot of length of the inner cable is used up, and there isn't much cable left coming out of the pedal end of the sheath - doesn't leave much room to mount the bracket for that end and and reach the pedal.....I'll probably have to figure out how to functionally extend the cable a bit....maybe a little extension of all thread connected to the threaded end that the adjuster nut screws onto, and/or maybe add a link to the pedal end.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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