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Thread: 58 Willys Wagon

  1. #301
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Looks good!

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    FINOCJ (November 15th, 2022)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Hot Dang! That looks wonderful. That's a solid step forward to the project - congrats!

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Think the transmission cover is essentially finished...I struggled with this a lot. Had at least 2 complete tossed away attempts and wasted a lot of sheetmetal, time, energy etc trying to make something functional. I still don't like it....but it works....I've been working on this for 3 months and honestly it feels like I should pretty much start all over again - its pretty rough when you see it in person. Trying to finish it up reasonably nice has been a problem as well. First, I did some metal filler to smooth out the seams and weld joints. As I wanted something with a bit more strength than traditional bondo style filler, I used a more epoxy based filler which turned out was quite difficult to work with, but provides a lot more joint strength - of course, then the cover didn't really want to flex and bend and form fit to floor like it did when first test fitting, so then ended up creating quite a lot of distortion 'encouraging' it to fit. Then I did roll-on bedliner as I wanted to do all the front floorboards with it soon, so I didn't use a finishing glaze over the filler as the rough bedliner was going to hide some of the irregularity. But I didn't like the bedliner - especially when I envisioned it across the entire floorboard area , so removed it and the hassles that came with it. I should have then redone the filler and finished it nicely, but I went with some random can of old black spray paint on shelf until I figure out how I want to finish the floorboards and figure it can just look a bit rough. I sprayed the underside with rubber undercoating.


    Also, trying make some sort of trim rings and boots etc is still a bit of work in progress. Currently, the 3 shifter combo area has a sheet of rubber with slits cut into for the shifters held under a trim ring, but seems the rubber is not quite the right type as it wants to tear at the ends more than stretch. Not sure if I can make much of an overboot to accommodate the 3 shifters....the primary trans shifter is in the works - think I can make a decent single shifter boot out of leather and a trim ring. We'll see - its not super critical as not much air flow comes through that....its the 3-shifter area that is most critical as it really funnels a flow of air right into the passenger seat (i.e. Jen wasn't very happy with it).

    I also modified the brake pedal again to create a even bit more room for my foot to access the gas pedal. At this point, the pedal pad is longer the limiting issue - its the actual pedal arm that goes down through the floor. I may also tweak the mount bracket for the gas pedal to move it a bit driver so its more under my big toe instead of over under the smaller toes - but we'll see how it feels for a bit more. I moved the brake pedal about an inch driver, but probably lost about half an inch on the passenger side of the pedal with the new cover (my foot used to just rest against the side of the transmission) - so maybe a net gain of half an inch or just a tad more. Every little bit helps - at least I don't tend to wear too chunky of footwear.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Here is one of the next big projects on the 58 (there are a couple other projects in the works as well).....D44 powr-lok LSD.


    Not 100% sure I want to run this. The wagon is not a hard wheeler, but sometimes it's hard to get anywhere without a bit of traction. Also I want it to be useable for winter road driving. I ran a tracloc in my CJ7, and in cj5 prior to the eaton selectable, and never had any issue with them on winter roads, but they were pretty useless from a traction standpoint. Obviously a selectable would work, but given the long term uncertainty about keeping the OEM axles, not a route I want to go now. Thinking this powr-lok would kind of find the sweet spot, and be authentic (period correct) for the build?

    Plus, having just done a D27 unit, hoping this will be quick and easy assembly and stored on the shelf ready to go. Quick inspection shows this used unit to be in good shape- clutch disks and plates are much better than the used ones I replaced on the D27 unit - think I can reuse all these components as is.


    As I learned when doing the D27 unit, there are only curved Belleville plates on the D44 unit, no Belleville discs like on the D27 unit. Also, all of the flat plates are the same thickness - no 'thin' ones like the D27 unit.

    So, finishing cleaning and assemble.....two things:
    1) going to need some 19spline short/cut-down shafts for set-up
    2) I have to figure out the 'buttons' that go in the cross shafts. The front axle set up doesn't use these....I know it's standard for tapered 44s, but it's new to me. Should I install these now during assembly? Seems like they will fall out? Should I wait and install later when/if the unit goes into the carrier and the axle shaft are slid in?
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    So got some cut down shorty shafts from an OWF member (thanks JABJEEP!):



    After doing the standard clean up, dry fitting everything together:



    Also I think I figured out the buttons (axle shaft spacers) hold the cross shafts together using a roll pin between the two buttons. They actually make assembly easier than the front D27 unit without the spacers as they help hold all that together (My cj5 has the 1piece D44, so no buttons there either).
    Assembling one of these units was much easier the second time around after building the D27 unit! Ready for red loctite and bolts:



    Ziploc'd and ready for a later install....although I really don't want to disassemble much of the 58 before RFTH, having this sitting around is going to be tempting to want to install....need to look for a rebuild/bearing kit.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Time for one of those little things that leads to interesting questions and turns into a lot of time etc....

    the driver side door wasn't opening from the inside (stopped working sometime last fall) - works perfect from the outside, so I just open the window to get to the outside handle to get out....
    Additionally, when it did work, there were some odd features.... to open the door, you would pull pack on the driver site handle, but the handle on the passenger side opens the door by pushing forward... Just seemed 'unconventional'....Here is the driver door (the passenger is the mirror image).....what I learned from some on OWF is that my handles were installed wrong, and need to rotate 90 (90 CW on the driver side) so they point forward and down. Additionally, the handles should pull back (on the low side) to open the door....in other words, the driver side should rotate CW and passenger side should rotate CCW to open (and the spring load will return it)...



    After learning about escutcheons and how to get the handles off so I can get to the mechanisms inside the door panel, I found the handle to be broken and possibly why things are a bit weird....



    So, the good news....the passenger side door now seems correct... the handle needed to be re-clocked so it points down and forward, and when looking at the door and handle, it must be turned CCW to open the door. so with the handle pointed down and forward, to open it, you need to pull the bottom end of the handle down and rearward.



    to open



    But the the driver side (the broken side) also rotates CCW when looking at the handle to open....Here I attached the handle in the correct forward and down orientation


    but to open it, the handle must move forward and up (turn CCW)....I got the door latch working perfectly, but it seems the rotation direction is wrong....Not exactly sure what is wrong with the mechanism - best guess is a passenger side mechanism (CCW) was put on the driver side (which should be CW) somewhere along the way, and to do that, the linkage rod was flipped around to the other direction which quite possibly reverses the way it twists/rotates such that it opens the door latch? I'll let you know more once I get the current one out and can compare directly. To get the entire mechanism out of the door, the window regulator needs to be removed first, and I have been waiting on that for a second set of hands to ensure I don't break the glass.

    But also made a trip to the local Willys salvage yard (that would be duffer's - thanks John!) and although we did not find a good handle replacement, I did get a driver side door mechanism (and a good set of escutcheons):


    and yes, it rotates clockwise - which is not what mine does. I think I can get my damaged handle to work with a little love, but may end up getting an aftermarket one.....now to get the window and regulator loosened/removed....at least everything is getting a bit of cleaning and some fresh lubrication..
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Thanks for the pictures!

    The handles are "pot" metal, yes? Any chance you could weld up the broken part and then grind it to be what it should be?

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "Thanks for the pictures!

    The handles are "pot" metal, yes? Any chance you could weld up the broken part and then grind it to be what it should be?"

    Yup...handles are por metal ...from what I've read on OWF, not many have had success welding it up. Possibly some sort of epoxy filler could work....the underside has a square recess where it sits on/over the square stud on the linkage mechanism....my damaged one is completely rounded out in addition to the crack. Might be able to make it work - might not be worth it.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Hmmm - any thought to cover the door side square 'stud' with a removable, thin, tape and then fill the handle hole with epoxy and then slide the handle onto the stud. Yep - epoxy will ooze out (protect surfaces as needed), wait for it to cure and then force pull the handle from the stud. Remove tape and see if the new and improved setup will hold up to use.

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    FINOCJ (April 28th, 2023)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "Hmmm - any thought to cover the door side square 'stud' with a removable, thin, tape and then fill the handle hole with epoxy and then slide the handle onto the stud. Yep - epoxy will ooze out (protect surfaces as needed), wait for it to cure and then force pull the handle from the stud. Remove tape and see if the new and improved setup will hold up to use."

    that is pretty much what I was wondering....got the linkage mechanism swapped out today with the help of jen - not sure we did it by the book - think you are supposed to remove the window and regulator out the top of the door, but we went with the unbolt the regulator support bar and push it this way and that, and shimmy the linkage mechanism this way and that, roll the window up and down to different positions, and then cuss and swear and get some various fingers caught before finding the magic spot and it fall out the bottom! And the good news, the new to me salvaged linkage seems to work just right!
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Doing a few different projects all at the same time, and they are seem to hit roadblocks so then i jump over to a different and repeat....first major one done though - got the door handles working right! The new to me interior mechanism works perfect and the door opens when pulling the handle rearward....I did a bit of work on the cracked handle and got it good enough to work for now - it might not last for long, and its definitely a bit loose/sloppy, but I'll be gentle with it. I even repositioned the window handle such that both the driver and passenger doors are perfect mirror images - of course, I don't know exactly what position the window handle should be in? The pic is with widow up/closed.... I can reclock it (and the passenger side) to any of the other 3 positions if there was some reason to....its sort of a small thing, but really rewarding to have the door handles figured out....next up in this vein is getting the keyed exterior door handle locks functional. Key for them are long gone before me, but basically new remove the old lock cylinder and put in a new one - no we'll see how difficult that little statement turns out to be...
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Next thing that got done is the receiver hitch.....this really started out as a different project that grew into a receiver hitch mount and eventual integrated gas tank skid plate....Going back to where it started - Trying to get some tow points on the 58....as it's not a hardcore wheeler, I do want to keep the OEM bumpers and look realizing they are not for abuse and approach/dept angle are not ideal. But at the same time, even just sliding into a snow bank in the winter, it helps to have some tow points....
    For the rear, was initially thinking on the bottom of the frame rail behind the shackle in a couple different arrangements....the biggest concern (I thought) was just making sure the hook was low enough for a strap to clear the bottom of the body and bumper to minimize damage if a strap was pulled hard and tight.





    But this lead to the realization that there is no rear cross-member on the wagon frame - like it was designed without one from the factory. The rear-most crossmember is in front of the gas tank, just a bit behind the rear axle position. So that got me worried that having a hook on the tail end of the frame rail could easily lead to a bent frame rail if the pull was much off angle of from the long direction of the rail. These old C-channel frames are not all that strong.

    So that lead to the idea trying to strengthen or tie the two rail ends together in some way - basically a sort of cross-member right at the rear of the frame rails. The hardcore crowd would probably weld in some square tubing, but I went a bit more moderate - I bolted in a receiver hitch across the rails. Having it removeable also makes accessing and dropping the gas tank much easier. The receiver will both help tie the tails for the frame rails together, and it can also be a tow point, it also provides some gas tank and rear bumper protection, and maybe one day I'll actually pull the raft trailer with the wagon. Its not super hard core recovery spot, but plenty good for this usage. The cross-tube of the receiver is sitting up tight against the bottom of the frame rails, and the receiver hitch will be just below rear bumper....clearance with the bumper could be an issue for a trailer tongue depending on a hitch ball riser, but any minor drop hitch should be fine - and this is not planned to do a lot of towing (if ever hauls anything) and a hitch extension could be used. I also hope to use this as the rear mount for a gas tank skid plate that is in the works....

    I think it fits nicely and isn't too obtrusive - the back end is sitting a bit high on jackstands in these pics:



    Primarily intend to use a hitch pin through the receiver as the tow point, or a soft shackle to the pulling line - this keeps the lever arm of the receiver to the shortest if the pull is a bit off-angle.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    So the second part of the hitch project is to use the hitch cross-tube as a mount for a skid plate that will protect the gas tank....mounting the rear is somewhat straight forward as just mounting it into the hitch tube - TBD whether I will try drill and tap into the 1/4" tube, or drill and weld thread inserts (stronger but more hassle and potential to go wrong).



    The front is a bit trickier....The plate will have to bend upward both for mounting purposes and to protect the front of the tank....It may be possibly to mount it into the OEM round cross-member, or I may be able to mount some sort of cross-bar across the frame rails, behind the big OEM one, and use that to mount the plate to (in that case, the cross-bar might be integrated into the plate and just bolt in at the frame rails)....


    So this is my first prototype....This is a good start...made from a single piece of carboard - so in theory, no welded joints, just bends, but TBD if i can really bend the 3/16". Going to try scoring it with an angle grinder cut-off wheel about 1/2-2/3 of the way though, the bend it and weld up the seam.





    The front of the pan is still TBD - the current test piece has a flat front with square bottom edge that is not the most 'slide-y', most likely to get hung up on something. But that edge is reasonably high - as in its somewhat protected behind the rear axle. I will probably try making a 2nd version with a more sloped front and something like a 45 angle...this potentially could also complicate the mounting to the round bar.
    As for round bar mounting - I think mounting directly along the bottom of the round bar can work. Drill in 4 holes and try to either tap or weld inserts (no idea how thick that tube is - guessing its 3/16" at most?). Putting u-bolts over the bar is also doable....no matter the method, trying to mate flat 2-D surface to the round bar is going to be a be rough on the aesthetics (for some reason I am worried about what it would like like under there?). Maybe a 'saddle' with the u-bolt would be nice - but unnecessary complications?
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Here is the next version of the skid plate...I think this is the one I will go with....sloping in the front such that it won't get hung up as easy...
    upslope in the front up to the round cross member....if I don't want the side angle on the back portion, I could do this with only one bend. The tank sides get a bit of extra protection with the sides bent up, and if I was using thinner plate, it would help with rigidity...but not sure it's gonna matter with 3/16".




    I took the front edge to the front of the cross member to make access to the fastening hardware a bit easier. Also means any frontal contact would be pushing the skid into the bar and not pulling it against the hardware.... Still debating on drilling into the tube vs using a u bolt set up.



    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    With this skid plate metal coming up at an angle from under the tube - what do you envision / how do you think you'll connect the forward edge?

    Your photo (yes, a basic mock-up) gives the thought to muck sitting in the valley at the front edge of the tube / atop the skid metal - and causing rust.

    So, depending upon how you plan to connect - this concern might not happen.


    In other news - great news on the door opener and window crank! Looks good.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "Your photo (yes, a basic mock-up) gives the thought to muck sitting in the valley at the front edge of the tube / atop the skid metal - and causing rust."

    that extra bit would get trimmed off once everything is finalized.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "With this skid plate metal coming up at an angle from under the tube - what do you envision / how do you think you'll connect the forward edge?"

    Been thinking about this a bit more.....
    1) The 'simplest' - or maybe just most straight forward? - is to mount it directly into the round cross-member.


    There is some aspect about this mount that I don't love - but not sure why it seems a bit off. Might be that I am concerned about drilling and welding thread inserts (while laying under the vehicle with poor access and visibility) into that tube and keeping the thread inserts aligned properly without a flat surface for reference. the concern over the front edge is also there - but not a huge issue - I could drill out a few holes to help it drain etc.

    2) basically, the front slope is going to be around 45 degrees if mounted behind the cross tube, and I could use some angle iron like this and weld it to the skid:


    That also makes the bottom of side of the angle flat and can be easily mounted to the frame rail (larger footprint and backing plate needed at mount):
    It's about 44" between the framerails, 28 of which is reinforced with the front of the skid plate. That leaves about 8" on each side for the angle to bridge to the framerail. That is a long 44" across with no additional mounts or support other than the plate itself, and the mount at the frame rails is not super robust....



    3) Last option might be a bit cleaner and stronger....but...weld some angle onto the tube.


    The angle would be pre fitted, drilled and have thread inserts welded prior to welding to crosstube. Then I could tack weld in place, remove the rest of the plate and weld-er-up along both edges...The bottom of the angle would definitely be a bit of a rust trap - maybe drill some drain holes in it.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I like the weld-a-mount bracket onto the axle tube route. It would provide extra rigidity to the axle tube (not a required item for this vehicle's use). It would ensure you're not drilling through the axle tube for a screw mount directly onto the axle tube (something I learned from you a while back regarding persistent oil drips - through hole vs blind hole fasteners).

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "I like the weld-a-mount bracket onto the axle tube route."

    FWIW - the round tube is not the axle tube (as it would move with the suspension), but rather the OEM rear cross-member.....why they went round - I don't know? Its location is above and slightly rearward of the rear axle position....
    thinking I am going to do try out #3 for a bit....I like that I can pre-drill and mount the thread insert (or just weld a nut) into the angle bracket before its in place. Its easier to do tedious tricky welding on the bench rather than under the rig. I will still have to weld under the rig, but its a more forgiving arrangement and much higher margin for error and still be usable (maybe not pretty).
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

  28. The Following Member Says Thanks to FINOCJ For This Post:

    Jim (May 11th, 2023)

  29. #320
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    1970CJ5 1958WillysWagon
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    okay - almost done with the fuel tank skid project...its in painting stage and laying on thicker coats and giving it some extra dry time.
    started with this 3/16" steel plate 3'x3':


    cut and bent it up to this - I could weld the seams more - just went with stitch welds to ensure minimal warpage at first, but think its plenty strong:



    The bends look really clean from the outside:


    Here is how I 'bent' it....its really cut and bend, which does weaken it compared to some sort of press brake - but I just don't have a better way to deal with 3/16" thick steel:


    made up a bit of a bending brake with some clamps and extra steel plate:


    and oftentimes some extra leverage and weight was needed (both Jen and I would do this together):


    To strengthen the bend, weld up the inside, and the outside of the bend looks really clean:


    I am sure some with good welding skills could just cut the pieces and weld the seams nicely for less work and a decent look - but this worked for me.

    The rear mount is easy going into the bottom of the hitch cross-tube....but the front mount on the round bar cross-member was a bit trickier. Here is the front mount that I welded to the round frame cross-member....




    I welded in 3/8-16 threaded inserts from the backside before welding it to the frame. Had to clean up the tube and then sprayed weldable primer to try and protect it a bit as well as on the backside of the bracket. Welding it to the frame was a bit tricky as expected. The angle bracket is only 1/8" and no idea what the round tubing thickness was - guessing its 3/16. My first couple weld attempts were a bit cold, but got better after turning up the heat. Trying to fit me with hood up in there where I could see anything and be able to move my arms enough to move the gun was a PITA as expected. Probably should have dropped the hitch and tank to get better access to the rear side, but I made it work as is. I might be able to get a bit of paint back inside there via the holes....

    The back end will mount into the hitch cross-tube....its 1/4" thick and just tapped 3/8-16 thread into it. If it doesn't hold, I can drill it out and weld in inserts from the front side. It looks really clean when installed...if I can get it cleaned up, scuffed up and painted this afternoon, I might be able to install it on Thurs before heading out for a few day river trip....
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

  30. The Following Member Says Thanks to FINOCJ For This Post:

    DaveO (May 18th, 2023)

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