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Thread: 58 Willys Wagon

  1. #181
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I think I needed to see this even if it doesn't mean much in terms of moving forward with the project....kind helps motivation


    Nice to see everything fits together...SBC350 to 1-piece aluminum bell to SM465 to D18....of course, the hard part will be fitting it under the willys and all the details like engine placement, motor moutns, cross-member, steering, clutch etc....I've been playing around with some modification to the stock cross-member to see if I can re-use that in some way - its really hard to tell alignment and spacing and probably won't be able to do much until its under the wagon. Guess I will go pull off a front fender to make it easier to try and slide this whole shebang in from the front - probably gonna have to start thinking about cutting some floorpan sheemetal out to accommodate this....

    The extra width of the sm465 compared to the original T90 (or T14 like in my cj5) really covers the one front facing D18 bolt up. Hopefully with a bit of lubricant I it will turn in by finger a couple turns, then I can get a 12pt closed end wrench on it (maybe even buy on of those hinged closed end ratchet wrenches)....but got to get it in fer'nuff to get the wrench behind it.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Tom (3 Weeks Ago)

  3. #182
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "I think I needed to see this even if it doesn't mean much in terms of moving forward with the project....kind helps motivation"

    Looks beautiful !!

    Some time, effort (and a bit of learning) in that metal.

  4. The Following Member Says Thanks to Jim For This Post:

    FINOCJ (3 Weeks Ago)

  5. #183
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Maybe there is hope this will all go back in the wagon one day....never dropped an engine in with transmission and transfer case all as one...in some ways, makes it real easy other than there is nothing to mount anything to - but of course having the radiator and front grill off is a big piece of that...


    I think I am getting close to getting the engine positioned correctly - in short I think the front end will have to come up a bit to get to the proper 3 degrees or so, and the whole thing will probably need to shift towards the driver side an inch or so....that will help with the two big clearance issues I am seeing: the front driveshaft to starter and the D18 to the floorpan tunnel. I have already cut the transmission hole bigger, but will need to cut a bit more on the driver side to allow things to shift in that direction....and of course, none of this has been tested with drivetrain weight on the suspension, which will be done after shifting things drivers side a bit. Hopefully its getting close.

    General position:


    Engine inclination - only about 1.5 degrees, so that needs to be increased a bit, and when the suspension sags under weight, it may need even a bit more:


    Liking the clearance on the back firewall - a large HEI won't fit, but a small HEI or pertronix unit might without too much firewall mod....obviously, the old hole is going to need some attention.


    Clearance in the front looks fine with the axle so far, and I think the long nose water pump would actually fit based on measurements (a bit tight) - planning to keep the electric fan set-up to maximize clearance there, but will can switch out to a short nose pump if needed.


    Here is my biggest concern so far - the front driveshaft to starter clearance. Moving the engine toward the driver side will help a bit, and maybe getting it a bit higher will help. Getting it driver won't be too difficult, but getting it higher is not as easy.


    Driverside clearance is fine as long as the steering shaft is routed low (below the motor mount) and horizontal (which will be an entirely separate project)...should be able to push the engine towards this side a bit:


    In terms of floorpan tunnel clearance... already cut the opening bigger, but going to have to cut a bit more to push things toward driver. Its also going to get tight with the gas pedal, but maybe that can be moved a bit if needed.


    From the underside, the D18 is hitting the hat channel on the side of the tunnel, so it cannot go any higher. If it moves driver a bit, that will help give it a bit more clearance, and maybe give an inch or so of upward movement.


    Finally, the cross-member....looks like everything is just high enough to clear the old cross-member, which is flat mounted under the frame. Its already a bit low and exposed being below the frame, so don't really want anything hanging any lower. Based on the D18 torque mount, if everything gets shifted just under and inch driver - the old torque mount would work with a flat cross-member, and the drivetrain will be lateraly just as it was original....but it is going to need an isolator mount under the trans. Its hard to see in the pic, but its sitting on top of the cross-member just left of the adapter plate. I got the Novak one that mounts into the bottom of the adapter plate, but obviously, its not going to fit on top of a flat cross-member - so some sort of modification or notch to the cross-member to create a bit of space is going to be needed. Or everything has to be raised 1.75" and I think that starts to create major interference with the floorpan tunnel...


    After getting everything pushed left - will have to see about getting the motor mounts clamped in place to test out putting the drivetrain weight on the frame, and putting on the add-ons like carb/air cleaner, starter etc and inspect clearances.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Jim (3 Weeks Ago),Tom (3 Weeks Ago)

  7. #184
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Did some work to get things shifted towards the driver....had to cut the tunnel a bit more, and then a bit more yet...It is a bit of hassle at this point to drop the transmission way down to give a lot clearance for cutting so just did a few small notches with the dremmel and will eventually go back and clean that all up with a bit more clearance. The sm465 really comes up through the floor now:


    That allowed me to get the engine mostly level and moved over...the engine is about 1.25" closer to the driver side frame rail than the passenger - easy to see the difference in the length of the mounts
    driver mount:


    passenger mount:


    I c-clamped the mounts to the frame - supposedly that is enough hold engine weight for test fitting. The one thing that is very hard to tell is if the engine is sitting square in the frame, and the crank and drivetrain are (in theory) directly parallel to the frame rails and perpendicular to the cross-member....given the age and abuse seen by this old wagon, the frame probably isn't all the square anyway, and the frame widens out right behind the engine...tough to tell, but I think it will help once its sitting solely on the mounts and they are tightened up a bit.

    Got the D18 torque mount lightly in place as that seems to set up well with the cross-member, but had to shim the transmission up 1/4" to level things out (might be a bit more after the weight is transferred to the engine mounts from the chain)....still have to figure out the isolator mount.



    Its sitting under it own weight on the mounts...the engine isn't at full weight as there are no pistons, rods or crank - so its a bit light, but the heads have the complete valve train. Put some of the accessories on like the carb, air cleaner, distributor, alternator, and electric wiper motor...



    This is not the air cleaner that was on the 283, and it has a more recessed bottom, so even with a 3" tall filter, it sits lower (covering more of the carb) and has no issue with the hood, and even better gives a bit room for the electric wiper motor. Its a 14" air cleaner, so maybe I can drop down to a 13" to provide a safe amount of clearance for the wiper motor. As for the distributor, an OEM large cap HEI will not install as is, but an older points style distributor (with pertronix) will fit nicely, but think it will still require a small depression in the upper portion of the firewall for it to be installed/removed with engine in place. Still planning on looking for a shorter small HEI set-up. In all cases, the electric wiper motor will have to be removed, but I am planning to get that set-up with 4 easy machine screws into riv-nuts and a quick disconnect plug for the wires.



    At first I was excited about how nicely the alternator bracket worked, but it is for a long water pump, and while I think the pump will clear the radiator, I do not think the associated lower crank pulley will clear the front cross-member (I assume the lower crank pulley has to stick out further to match the longer water pump) ..so probably going to have to go with a short water pump and shorter crank pulley, and figure out a different alternator bracket (and PS pump).



    Also checking the front driveshaft clearance with starter mount...there is about 2.25" of vertical clearance. There is also an extra long bumpstop for the right leaf spring that is shifted back towards the the spring pivot that is there to help protect the starter.




    So I think this is pretty darn close to the final position. There are trade-offs for every potential shift or change...as I will probably have to go to a short water pump, the engine could possibly be pushed a bit further forward to allow for easier distributor removal with a flat firewall, but it might change clearance with driveshaft/starter, and its hard to move the support cross-member much further forward as it will interfere with the frame mounted pedals. Raising the engine a inch or two more is also a possibility - it would help with driveshaft clearance, but hurt distributor access, and floorpan cutting would have to get a lot bigger to clear the D18, not just the sm465.
    Compared to where the old 283 was mounted, the current position is about 2.5 further forward, and maybe 1 inch higher at the back, and will be even more at the front as the old 283 had no inclination to its mount. I think I will drop the pan and add in the crank, then test fit with short water pump
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Steve-O (2 Weeks Ago)

  9. #185
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Did a bit of test fitting, and the long water pump was a no go with the engine placement - interference with the electric fan and front cross-member. Did test clearance with short water pump - looks to be the route I will go, but going to need some multi-groove pulleys for short pump and crank. Could possibly run a mechanical fan with this engine placement and small spacer, although clearance with the front cross-member might be a problem. For now, sticking with the electric fan.



    Doing some research on short water pump bracket mounts for alternator and steering pump as all the ones I have are for the long pump. Ordered up these, hoping they might do the trick:

    Small Block Chevy Upper Alternator Bracket, Plain
    this alternator bracket would keep it from getting too far outboard on the passenger side, as I also have to figure out where to mount the battery tray...the previous swap had the battery tray on the inside front passenger fender, and if kept there, it would interfere with too far of an 'outboard' alternator mount....The one linked would probably require a different water outlet angle but that is manageable.

    JEGS 60795: Power Steering Pump Brackets Side Mount | JEGS
    this PS pump mount looks good and is sort of the standard driver side mid mount - couldn't use this with the 283 as it had the front cradle mount that would have interfered. It has 2 positions, and I'd probably use the higher position for ease of access....

    Pulled the drivetrain out to work on some stuff, before doing a final test fit later. I decided to 'clean up' the section of the ugly firewall that had been notched back into the cab to clear the distributor by just cutting out it all the junky rough and cracked stuff to find some good metal and smooth edge - this is going to be tough for me as the firewall is not just a flat panel, and I will probably need to create my own notch to provide some distributor install/removal clearance. Also will need to create a horizontal overlay for the seam between the upper and lower panels, as the welded and stiffening lip has been removed.


    The motor mounts will need to be welded to frame...as they are positioned over a 'window' section of the frame, had to fill the window with new metal.




    so I welded in a patch piece on each side...Getting better at doing this - hopefully the motor mounts don't pull out at 60mph...



    Novak suggests best welding mount is to plug weld them to the inside of the frame rail boxing, and then run a short section of bead along the top, but not to run long weld beads vertically along the sides....what do you all think?
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

  10. #186
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    You might wish to take a look at what the Fab Rats guy did:
    https://youtu.be/yqh3PbokqLI?t=788

    I queued it for about 13 minutes. At 14:55 he talks about the diamond - for stress issues on the frame.

    I don't have any idea if what he's doing is good/bad/otherwise. FWIW

  11. The Following Member Says Thanks to Jim For This Post:

    FINOCJ (2 Weeks Ago)

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