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Thread: 58 Willys Wagon

  1. #101
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I'd use it as-is and see how it performs. I don't imagine you'll have the issues you're concerned with (fan restricting airflow [causing overheat?]). The air that wants to flow will push the free spinning blades out of the way.



    As for a water crossing, elect fan "off" function - these tickle my mind...

    1) Use a simple push-and-hold to disable button. When released the fan is back to normal
    or
    2) A flip off to disable allowing two free driving hands - and it runs a buzzer when off - enough volume to get your attention to flip to enable / normal operation
    or
    3) A timed disable function (1 or 2 minutes perhaps). Push to disable and the X minutes timer starts and after that - it's back to normal. (I can help with this setup - I have a 1-hour after ignition off accessories stay on circuit in the jeep - GPS power and USB power ports).

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "I don't imagine you'll have the issues you're concerned with (fan restricting airflow [causing overheat?]). The air that wants to flow will push the free spinning blades out of the way."

    Not sure the blades will be free spinning though? But you are probably right as my experience and concern probably has more to do with fixed mechanical fans (like on the cj), where as I push the upper limit of speed in the aerodynamic equivalent of a windblock, the engine is forcibly turning the fan against air when it doesn't need to and sucks up a little bit of engine power - and a little bit of engine power in an old jeep is a valuable thing. I hate messing with the cj as it runs great, but maybe a clutched mechanical fan would be useful to get a little more hwy go out of it? None of it is going to matter right now....

    Jim previously posted:
    "A flip off to disable allowing two free driving hands - and it runs a buzzer when off - enough volume to get your attention to flip to enable / normal operation"

    that might be a good option - I usually just like a light on my toggle switch - maybe because in the cj, you often can't hear much with the wind or top noise.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    If you're doing water crossings where wind noise is an issue - please, let me be there first with a video camera

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Going to try and get the windshield wipers up and working on the 58 wagon....its quite the mechanical system of cables and pulleys. I am hoping to replace the OEM vacuum motor with an electric motor, but also need to get the cable system up under the dash working correctly. It should look like this when done right....not many wiper systems like this these days:
    53 willys wagon windshield wipers motor works but blades don't move

    53 willys wagon windshield wipers motor works but blades don't move
    www.oldwillysforum.com


    ___________
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Have three projects going on with the wagon right now - and none of them are going well:
    1) leaking heater core - the Colorado Radiator repair shop on I-70 and Oneida closed, so I am trying a new one - Serck services. They say it cannot be repaired, and they will have to build a whole new core for it. There are no direct aftermarket replacements - some are close, but would require modifying/cutting/drilling etc the old heater box housing to fit the new ones - and the hose nipples would not be ideal. Difference in cost is $250 vs $70.....

    2) working getting the windshield wipers working - the cable and pulley system is functional and getting cleaned up, but the electric motor upgrade (over the OEM non-functional vacuum motor) doesn't fit with the air filter cleaner on the sbc....going to have to find a different air filter housing....and then the really frustrating part will be the wiper motor will have to be removed prior to removing the distributor (which is also the case for the vacuum motor), but not sure I can get set-up do so easily.

    3) In addition to puking oil out of all the gaskets, it also seems to consume lots of oil - so I finally got around to doing a compression test. The numbers are not good - they should be around 120 assuming an 8 or 8.5:1 CR and that we are at high altitude here. These were run dry - the numbers are so bad I didn't even try a 'wet' test with oil. Doesn't really matter if its bad rings or bad valve seal etc.
    1: 60
    2: 80
    3: 75
    4: 70
    5: 90
    6: 90
    7: 80
    8: 80
    ___________
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    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Oof. That's a tired engine for sure.
    ___________
    2001 XJ 4.0/AW4/NP242/HP30/D44 on 32s with TrueTracs,
    1987 MJ 5.3/4L60E/Atlas/HP60/D80 on 40's with ARBs (that's the plan anyway, ETA 2022)

    If you can't fix it with a hammer or duct tape you have an electrical problem

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    The heater core sprung a significant leak last week. Pulled the core and it looked like its probably been seeping for a long time, and finally went all out. Took it to a local radiator shop to see if they could repair it......


    In the end, the leak was in the core and not the tanks, so the shop to replaced/rebuilt the heater core - hope it was money well spent. I think the spectre 94478 would work in both the old willys and ecj5s with a bit of minor mods to the heater box....here is the repaired core - looks good from my vantage point (but what do I know):



    Took the entire heater and blower system apart to clean it and get it functioning just a bit better - guessing from the size of the core and the fresh source is all just like the cj, that this thing is as much a placebo heater as anything, but I'd like it to at least function and look decent. Took it all apart and cleaned however many years of gunk, dirt and whatnot out of and off of everything. The plenum assembly always seemed to rattle around etc - turns out it is probably a homemade replacement for the old cardboard style. Its made out of something like galvanized flashing and riveted together - but it actually seems to be pretty darn solid. The diverter/flapper was reused and the dual outlet is also steel - so maybe oem as well.


    I think if I would have made one - I would have welded it together from thin sheetmetal. It has a lot of sharp edges at the overlaps and corners, as well as the seams are not airtight (although the oem cardboard one weren't after a few years either), so wonder if that has any significant affect on airflow out the defroster etc. At some point it had been held to the blower housing with a few screws - but most of those where gone and it was barely holding together with some dry rotted duct tape. I attached them together much more solidly with 2 screws on each side, trimmed and worked on fitting the joint together nice and tight, and used a little hammer work to tighten up and smooth over most of the open gaps and rough edges etc. I think it came out pretty darn well.....certainly worth re-using instead of buying the plastic aftermarket ones....The biggest concern is there is there is a bit bigger gap around the diverter (between the diverter flap and the inside of the tunnel) than I would like, so not all of the air will get diverted into the defroster.


    The rest of the heater box and housing has also been cleaned up - there was a lot of rust and corrosion etc, and its not easy to get in all the nooks and crannies, but its also looking really good. Was going to let the paint finish drying and put it all back on the willys, but I am thinking I am about to pull the engine, so might as well leave it out.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    It looks nice now!

    As for rust in the nooks - how about setting it into a tub of Evapo-rust?

    Might some of the HVAC silver tape do a nice job sealing while hopefully lasting much longer than duct tape?

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Evaporust would probably work well. Don't know about hvac vs duct tape...but did get to thinking I could spray it with that rubberized 'flex seal' stuff you see advertised all the time.
    ___________
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    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    This has me thinking - could the MD cord weatherstrip work? I bought a box and used it on my HVAC box. I have a couple hundred feet left over - I'll bring it to the cleanup run on Saturday (along with the seat slide).

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Buil...1548/100353483
         

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    FINOCJ (September 18th, 2020)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Re-did the compression test with a hot engine and all the plugs out - seems a little better:
    #1: 100
    #3: 105
    #5: 130
    #7: 115

    #2: 118
    #4: 105
    #6: 112
    #8: 112

    Then did a leakdown test on #1: 20% loss on two separate tests
    Using a rubber hose, the loudest most obvious out flow was the dipstick tube, next was the valve cover breather (immediately above #1), then the carb horn when throttle plate is opened, and then the road draft tube. No sound in the exhaust system, nor in the radiator, nor in the adjacent cylinder. Kind of sounds like intake valve issue - and probably some worn rings as well? That was just number #1....
    ___________
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Another little project - Replacing the glove box....I sorta copied this idea from a member of the Early cj5 forum...and although the wagon is similar to the cj5, the dash and glovebox area are not exactly the same.

    The aftermarket replacements are either cheap plastic that likes to crack (have that in my cj5), or OEM style restoration with oiled cardboard - and for around $50-$60 shipped to me, neither seemed all that great. So I used one of the cheap $10 50cal ammo cans from HF. The lid slides right off the hinges and I removed the handle so it wouldn't rattle around when driving. Comparison of the cardboard box (which I would guess is not OEM, but some proper fitting aftermarket replacement) with the ammo can:


    Dimensions for the cardboard box is just about 10.75"x5" for the front opening and 9.5" deep.
    as compared to the ammo can at 11"x5.5" for the front opening and 7" deep.
    The bottom dash support in the wagon is different than the flat edge in the cj5 - there is actually two lips on the wagon - the OEM box mounts just under the upper lip, and the door hinge mounts on the lower lip. The ammo can fits better on the lower lip, so mounting took a relief cut on the bottom of each side as well as removal of one of the hinges (eventually I removed the next hinge as well to make clearance for the side mounting hole and nut):


    And then the outside back corner needed clearance (I was expecting at only 7" deep, I wouldn't run into any interference, but the extra half inch of height and inflexible metal doesn't quite fit):


    So that led to the question of whether to leave the corner open or to try and weld in thin sheet metal to keep the box 'enclosed'. I went with the weld in a patch, which was a bit tedious given the how thin the can sides are - maybe 22 gauge? I had some 18 gauge sheet metal I made the patch from, and it was thicker than the ammo can. Even at the lowest setting, it was trying to burn the can away more than weld it. Its not pretty, but it won't be visible once painted and installed....If I did it over again, I probably would skip the patch and just leave the open corner....(or maybe overlap the patch and spot weld it in)....


    Need to cut a relief slot for the door hanger (its an odd arrangement, but its how its done on the original ones as well) - I am using the same bottom mounts as the door hinges use (not the same ones the cardboard box uses), so can test fit that on the bench....


    Add a couple holes on the sides - spacer required on one side between the dashboard tab and the inside of the can as the box is just a bit wider than the OEM. To minimize interference with the top of the cowl and to simplify the door hanger hook slot, I chose to push the box to the driver side and put the spacer there.


    As the can mounts on the lower frame lip, whereas the OEM box uses the upper lip, there is a bit of dead space back under the upper lip - might eventually fill that with a bit of spongy foam or whatnot to keep things from disappearing under it....


    It needs cleaning and painting....but the test fit looks good and its mounted solidly. Going to get some grey paint instead of dark so its easier to see the stuff inside of it. This should outlast the willys at this point.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

  14. The Following Member Says Thanks to FINOCJ For This Post:

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    SWEET!

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Luvin it.
    Im really into the rat rod stylin..
    ___________
    In a never ending search for the proper mix of dirt & rock !

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Awesome project! Lots of work, but so rewarding!

    Makes me miss working on my old Ford tractor, lots of memories with the generator catching fire, me running back to the barn for a wrench to get the battery off, hoping the tractor wouldn't be on fire when I got back.

    How's the pertronix holding up? I went through 2 of them failing and the new owner stayed with points.

    The ammo can glove box is a great idea.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    tirefoamcan previously posted:
    "How's the pertronix holding up? I went through 2 of them failing and the new owner stayed with points."

    Interesting - never heard of issues with them. In the old jeep world, pertronix is well regarded and is the common upgrade for both the F134 and 225v6. The one in my cj5 has been there for over 5-6 years. I ran points for a while, but continual maintenance of the points and gap can be a PITA if the distributor doesn't have the window to access while running. Additionally, the condensers are so cheap and iffy, that more than half of them are dead upon opening the package. I also seem to get a bit of oil that migrates up the distributor shaft and makes its way through the felt 'seal' (hard to get quality rebuilt distributors for the odd fire v6 - Cardone is sort of the default and is of ho-hum quality) which would cause lots of issues with points - but a bit of oily residue doesn't cause any issues with the magnetic trigger. Just using a timing light its easy to see the consistency of spark is better and stronger, and start up is much easier even when the electrical system is taxed. One thing that does need to be done carefully is shimming the distributor gear and magnetic ring to get the right gap between the magnetic ring and the pick-up - it is much less tolerant of vertical movement of the shaft and rotor than traditional points, although even for points, its very helpful to get the the gear shimmed just right. The most recent one i bought for the sbc, I bought the whole distributor with the pertronix installed (no kit was available for the early sbc distributor I had), and all the shimming and tolerances where already done....literally drop in and start (which was nice after fighting an old hand-me-down accel breakerless distributor that apparently had gone bad sitting on the shelf for a decade plus). The only time I had a failure was my fault - after the engine rebuild, it had a slightly different oil pump on the timing cover, and the distributor shaft didn't have enough end play clearance with the oil pump drive slot, and when it got hot, the distributor shaft expanded/lengthen and pushed the breaker plate up out of its press fit in the housing just enough to cause the magnet ring to rub on the magnetic pick-up and damage it, and then magnets wanted to fall out. At one point in the archives of the earlycj5 forum, there was an issue with pertronix rings getting made with the magnets in the rings backwards (they worked if you flipped the ring upside down). But it seemed to be a one-off production run error and neither of the 3 I have used have had any problems. Its been one of the absolute best upgrades I have made to either jeep....put em in and forget about it. If you need a dwell meter let me know...mine isn't being used these days!
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I thought the pertronix would be the best to replace my points. The first time it failed, I thought it was because my kids left the ignition on. The 2nd time was after I sold it to my friend before moving out here and it went out on him.

    For me, it sputtered and still kind of ran, but for him it went 100% dead. I changed the electronics to a 12v alternator, and had a 12v coil in it. Still ran 6v to the ignition system. Was the best thing I did to that tractor. Other than replace the head gasket.

    Looking forward to seeing more of your wagon!

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    tirefoamcan previously posted:
    "The first time it failed, I thought it was because my kids left the ignition on."

    That is how I burned up my first set of points - basically welded the contact tip. Unlike points, leaving the ignition on won't damage the pertronix system. Maybe there are some different types of pertronix set-ups - both that I have seen use a traditional delco distributor with the 'disk' rotor (not the single 'pointer' type rotor) for the magnetic ring to mount to. No electricity actually flows 'through' the system - its all induction based (contactless) so there is basically no wear on the ring or pick-up.
    ___________
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    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    It's gonna be a bit, but hopefully some new power for the wagon
    ___________
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    1958 Willys Wagon
    2010 Tacoma TRD

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Ah, a plan coming together!

    Same motor or does this have more wheel spinning, frame twisting power?

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