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Thread: 58 Willys Wagon

  1. #281
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Definitely want to put it in 4wd and use it. I have an LSD to eventually go in the rear D44. I'd also love to put an aftermarket set of leaf springs and some bigger tires! It gets loaded on trailer to go to MT on Fri, but thinking about where I can take it in the next couple days...but it's barely gone anywhere so not sure it's ready. Plus, there no floorpan trans cover yet....and it's dripping a bit from the RMS which really annoys me.
    ___________
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    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    If you wish to get out the next day or so, I might be able to squeeze some hooky time...

    Stirr'n the pot (but looking at the calendar [in advance for once!] - I have mid-day appointments the next two days - so I'm likely out).

    EDIT: My Thursday appointment might be flexible to reschedule...

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    FINOCJ (May 4th, 2022)

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I think the reality is I just don't have time even though I'd love to get out....Thurs would be the only chance....
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Was pretty exciting to see this happen today:
    ___________
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    1970 CJ5
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Ah, the simple things in life!

    I saw the six second vid - and well - no seeing it driving around the block so the wipers must be IT.

    Does the washer fluid work? (I won't poke a stick - mine hasn't for years)

    (it is in driving condition, yes - I thought it was)...


    Your dust storm / highway deaths event made news down here.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "Ah, the simple things in life!

    I saw the six second vid - and well - no seeing it driving around the block so the wipers must be IT.

    Does the washer fluid work? (I won't poke a stick - mine hasn't for years)

    (it is in driving condition, yes - I thought it was)...


    Your dust storm / highway deaths event made news down here."

    The OEM wiper system for these old willys is a vacuum motor mounted inside the engine bay on the firewall and a very convoluted and unique cable and pulley system up behind the dash. The vacuum motor didn't work (at least the best I could tell) when I got the willys - it can be rebuilt but I just didn't have the interest as even when in new condition, they still work rather marginally. So I sold it off to someone who wants to do an original style restoration, and used an aftermarket electric motor that comes with the proper adapter to fit the cable drive (its a common willy upgrade). Fortunately, the cables and pulleys in my wagon seem to be ok - many systems in old willys have long since deteriorated, corroded, jammed up with dust and dirt and whatnot and break the cable etc. The are complete aftermarket systems using solid push-pull bars and worm gear much like on later vehicles (like my cj), but I am going to give this a run for now. Hopefully I don't break a cable. As for windshield washer - I do not believe there was any provision for one on my willys. The cj originally had a small hand operated pump on the dash with reservoir on the front fender, and squirter on the center of the cowl...but I've never even tried to make it operational. The dash mounted handpump was broken when I got it and the reservoir was completely deteriorated and wouldn't hold fluid....I have thought about replacing the pump with electric and using some generic plastic reservoir, but guess its just REALLY low on my priority list. Overall, the wagon engine and trans etc seems to be running pretty well...when its really hot out, the carb is boiling fuel and I still have some seat brackets to make and finish the floorpans etc, but been focused on the house and getting the cj ready for Leadville. The CJ seems ready to go now, so starting to focus back on the willys. Going get a phenolic spacer to put under the carb, install an overdrive and get the interior wrapped up by winter!
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Your carb boiling reminds me of an issue with my 68 ford (302 v8). What does yours have for carb heat?

    My ford used exhaust gas passing from one side to the other through the intake manifold to heat the carb. I do not recall any temp operated valve - it was always "on". Trying to solve the issue I ended up putting a brass spacer (blocker) between the head and intake manifold to block the exhaust gas passage. It was blown apart - too much pressure.

    The system used a restricted exhaust down-tube on one side to create a pressure differential have exhaust pass through the intake to the other exhaust side. In my case the restricton (a smaller tube fitted inside of the main down tube) had collapsed - forcing almost all of the exhaust from one side of the motor through the intake manifold passages to the other side - excessively heating the carb in the process.

    I ended up pulling the exhaust from the car (exhaust manifold back). The down tubes looked good / perfect / the same on both sides - but tapping an open palm to each side - the echo was vastly different. A hack saw cut of each showed the inner pipe collapse and the problem. New exhaust system was the answer.

    Perhaps the issue might tickle your mind to cure your boiling problem.

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    FINOCJ (July 18th, 2022)

  11. #288
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Jim previously posted:
    "My ford used exhaust gas passing from one side to the other through the intake manifold to heat the carb. I do not recall any temp operated valve - it was always "on"."

    Yes - it has a similar exhaust gas carb heater passageway.....A lot of people block them off like you tried, and I remember thinking about what to do with it last fall, but now I cannot remember what I decided to do when I put the intake on. Trying to go through my assembly pictures to see what I might have done. The cj has the passages blocked - but with a manual choke, I was less concerned about managing cold starts. The sbc has the early style thermo-coil choke, and with cold Montana winters, I think I might have been concerned about getting the coil to heat up enough to pull off the choke. If that is the case, I made a mistake, as this thing generates enough heat that winter starts won't be much of an issue after a couple minutes warm up. But I am not wanting to pull the intake manifold only to find I already blocked it! Going to start with the insulating spacer, and if that doesn't work, I'll move on to blocking the intake exhaust passageway.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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  13. #289
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    A little mod....The seat bracket I made last year just wasn't quite working out in terms of the amount of ramp or tilt angle on the seat - it was just very flat bottom. Here is the bracket from last year and the seat mounted on it.



    I tried putting some spacers under it to tilt it back a bit, but never could get it right. So I cut the bracket apart, and hack fabricated in some more rearward tilt....



    Way better now, and without the spacer under the bracket, its a rock solid mount to the slider whereas before there was just a bit of slop or rock - not much, but just a bit annoying. Can now make the passenger seat to match....
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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  15. #290
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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Nice - bonus is that you have a nice "glove box" under the seat too!

    Does the storage box go through to the pass side (or is there a driveshaft hump blocking passage)?

    After looking at the pic - I see transmission sticking out. You have some "doghouse" removed?

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    The glove box does go all the way through to one under the passenger seat, but the floor does pinch up where the trans tunnel is...so it's really more like two separate compartments.
    As for the 'doghouse'....I still haven't fabricated the floorpan cover for the transmission. I am currently working on installing the final piece of the drivetrain - an external PTO warn overdrive like I have on my CJ, and until that is complete with shifter linkage etc, I don't want to do the floorpan cover. I don't mind driving it around as is, but Jen would like the trans cover, so that justified expediting the OD purchase.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Easy cover in a pinch... a rubber floormat, cut shift lever holes, trim, fasten, done!

    Air tight for some warm winter driving. Possibly some sound deadening.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Time to build the front passenger seat mount....but of course, given my slightly compulsive nature for symmetry, I had to be absolutely certain the driver seat was how I wanted it. After getting the ramp angle the way I liked, it was still a bit off-center behind the steering wheel. There isn't a set of perpendicular or parallel lines in the entire wagon - in the front, the door angle inward towards the front, the top slants in as well, the 2-piece windshield makes an angle from one side to the other, the dash is not vertical, etc - so finding good reference points and measurements is difficult....As best I could tell, the driver seat needed to shift outward 3/4-1" to be nicely centered behind the wheel - unfortunately, the brackets I made didn't quite allow for the full shift, so I ended up moving them the maximum I could without re-making the bracket which was just a smidge over 1/2" - guess that'll do, hopefully 1/4" won't matter too much....now on to the passenger seat....

    Much like the driver side, it was important to me to not trash the original mounting set-up in case I (or someone down the line) wanted to re-use the original seats (which I have and at times debate having re-done and re-using). I also didn't want to do any unnecessary modifications or drill too many holes etc - so like the drive side, I came up with a way to re-use the OEM floor mounts and then did have to drill two rear holes through the floor into the tool box area. The OEM seats had no rear hold down - just pivoted forward - and that was where I drew the line and made a solid back mount for the seat. Its hard mounted, so the seat will not tip forward - no latch or release mechanism - maybe I can figure out that later - but since I don't plan to have a rear seat for now, no need for passengers to have access other than via the tailgate.

    I am stupid slow at fabricating, and also have some limitations with tools and knowledge. This probably would be more aesthetic - and probably easier - with round tubing and a bender (like the OEM brackets), but don't have one. I used what I had, and wanted it to match the driver side bracket as well, so basically angle iron and flat stock....maybe some 1" square tubing would have been better looking, but it is what it is....in the end, I am happy with the positioning etc....time to finish the OD install...


    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I might be getting the OD install nearing completion....Here is the basic idea:
    Remove the D18 PTO cover and then remove the mainshaft gear:



    Then slide in the appropriate barrel gear and planetaries (the is the common 6-spline, 29-tooth set-up for a small case 2.46 D18)


    Tighten the nut and install the diamond lock washer - in my case, the 'tab' on the washer is sitting in one of the correct recesses just below 3 o'clock:


    Then eff with the snap ring for WAY too long trying to get it in - go get a drink, check on the pets, dispose of a dead bird that flew into the window, surf you-tube to ensure you aren't doing it wrong, and then go back and finally get it in (and then quite possibly dance around in a disturbing way):


    These are the fancy gasketed/sealing washers that you can get from AA to seal up the one mounting bolt (at 2 o'clock or so) that goes through the OD fluid reservoir and threads into the D18...the other 4 bolts don't go through the OD reservoir, but do thread into open holes that go into the D18 reservoir. I used thread sealer on the 4 and then the fancy washer and a dab of RTV around bolt neck - no expectations that it won't leak. I don't think I did or recognized the need to try and seal under the bolt head on the cj5 OD - so that is probably THE reason it likes to seep just a little.....


    The back end fully installed:


    As you can see, this unit is an old style front shift (won't work with a large case D18 or D20), and I think it actually makes life a bit easier for me in terms of linkage.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Although I've already cut out a pretty big hole for the sm465, I had to cut the passenger corner some more to find room to mount the shifter.


    I think quite a few people mount the OD shifter forward of the TC levers, but for my set-up, it seemed easier to keep it on the rear corner on the transmission. The top of the sm465 has lots of casting ridges, thicker sections and whatnot - so its not totally trivial to just use some angle iron and drill a couple holes mount to the top cover. The underside of the bracket has some spacers welded on to help make it nice and flat and square.


    With the 465/D18 combo mounted as high as I could get it, it is nice the linkage shaft doesn't have to go up and over anything. Additionally the shifter mount ends up pretty high on top the sm465, so the linkage can actually can angle slightly upward from the OD to the shifter and not interfere with the floor pan. One thing to be careful of - I wanted to move the shifter a bit further forward, but then the linkage begins to interfere with the front cap on the D18. IIRC, this photo is with the OD in direct drive (shifter is pulled back, which pushes the linkage forward), and it has nice clearance from the D18:


    And the short section of linkage going back to the OD:


    The shifter bracket may still need a little love - its not as 'rigid' as I would like. May still need to tweak the spacers or grind a bit of clearance with the 465 cover. But otherwise, it needs some time for the gasket seal to cure, then some fluid and a test drive. I still need to bend the various shifter canes to get everything just right. The sm465 will get bent away from the driver's knee and toward the center just a bit, the OD will get bent away from the passenger's knee and towards to the center, and the long D18 lever (front axle engagement) will need to bend outward/passenger some. Who wouldn't be excited to have 4 shifters!
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    its all done! test drive went nicely. To cruise at 60mph at just around 2100 rpm (instead of 2800) is very nice! Took some bending of the shift levers to get everything to pass...when in 2wd (long D18 shifter forward), everything is super nicely spaced. It only gets a little tight when in 4wd (long D18 shifter pulled back) and with OD engaged (OD shifter forward). Its possible I could bend the long D18 shifter a bit further forward up under the dash a bit more - but I don't want to change the OD shifter as it seems just about perfect (maybe its just similar to my cj so it seems i can find naturally). If I have to pull the twin sticks for some reason I might try to get another inch, but until then, I can live with it. I also tried to bend the sm465 shifter cane a bit as well - it might have moved an inch inward (it doesn't touch my knee anymore in 1st) - but I guess I just didn't have long enough pipe extension or strong enough vice/fulcrum point and hold to get much done to it. In the pic, the sm465 is forward up in 2nd gear, and when it shifts down to the bottom in 3rd, its nicely adjacent to the OD shifter - not sure I really want it any closer to the OD as when its in 3rd there is comfortable space but easy to jump over to the OD.

    Time to make floor pan transmission cover....this could be difficult for me.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    I didn't want to fork over the money for new Yakima/Thule racks/bars etc, but recently I found a set of 66" bars with yakima raingutter towers for sale on CL just down the road from me. Price was right, so I bought them and added the 'hi-rise' spacers - I did test running the Yakima towers without the spacers, and the cross-bars will not clear the roof. I think the spacing for the height of the bars above the roof is just about right - certainly it doesn't need to be any higher - it could be an inch lower depending on usage. I carry kayaks and bikes on my racks mostly, and having them just a bit on the high side is good.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    Look'n good!

    Montana has vehicle stickers? ...or is that a holdover from Colo?

    Sprinkler blowout happened here today - cold weather is on the doorstep.

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    sticker is old (1980 something?)
    blew out sprinklers yesterday...there was some forecast for wet snow/rain in town here on Tues, but now its looking like the cool air and moisture will drop down further to the east with warmer temps and blue sky over Bozeman for another nice week.
    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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    Default Re: 58 Willys Wagon



    So back on Aug 19 I suggested it was time to make the transmission floorpan cover....3 months and a few failed attempts later, I Think this will work - I had to sort of work around a fundamental mistake with how I placed the engine and transmission. I probably should have shifted the engine/trans etc over to the passenger side 1-2 inches from where it is. I didn't do that because the GM starter motor starts to sit above the front driveshaft and front of the oil pan starts to get close to the front differential, so keeping things shifted a bit to the driver side helps with those clearances. I also wanted to keep the engine/trans/TC mounted as high as possible, which worked well in the current location. To move things passenger required either lower the entire set-up or massive floorpan modifications under the passenger seat to create TC clearance. Unfortunately, one of the things I overlooked is the unusually HUGE size of the sm465 transmission - especially its width - and how far out of center of the existing trans tunnel it would be, and how it creates foot space problems with the OEM gas pedal location etc. With through the floor pedals and frame rail mounted brake MC, there is not a lot of option to move or bend pedal to create much room....Anyway, I've already done a bit of modification to the pedals to create some room, and when driving it without a trans cover, there was just enough room, so I really had to struggle to build a cover that kept as much pedal room as possible, and some more pedal mods/tweaks are to come.....in hindsight, I would have dropped the entire drivetrain an inch or so, and tried to get it shifted and inch or so further passenger - or better yet, used the T18 trans sitting on my floor instead of the sm465, which is also a tough truck 4 speed, but is a couple inches narrower than the sm465 (I also like the gear ratio splits on the T18 better - but the plan at the time was that is supposed to go into the CJ).

    Its not designer stylish, and still lots of work to finish it up with welds and paint etc. Thinking I probably cannot cleanly weld the thin sheet metal along the butt seams without burning through - so will probably create some strips to overlap the seams and 'spot' weld....I tried to build overlap flaps into the pieces so I wouldn't have butt-seams, but it got too complicated and beyond my ability, so I just made puzzle pieces to fit the spaces. I am also thinking of stripping front floorpan to fresh metal and trying to roll in some sort of heavy duty paint/bedliner/sound deadener type stuff that would also go over the cover and sort of cover up my ugly edges etc - no plans for carpet or anything like that for now.




    ___________
    James Orofino
    1970 CJ5
    1958 Willys Wagon

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