58 Willys Wagon

[FINOCJ]

Different motor than the current 1957 sbc283 that is in it now....this is an early 70s sbc350 (I think). It will have more power - possibly to the detriment of the current transmission (any v8 is pushing the oem transmission near its limit). I like the old 283's - they sound awesome when revving, and they are very durable. But as a short stroke engine, they don't have much low end torque and need some rpm to find the sweet zone. Mine is a bit worn, but it really has no guts below 1500rpm, and you got to get above 2000rpm to start to feel it pull. My comment the other day was that it won't idle over a speedbump - you gotta rev it up and burn some clutch just to get around the grocery store parking lot. While there are some open road conditions, and also other, sportier, zippier applications that suite the 283 well, I am not sure its the best option for an old 4wd jeep. If the engine had no issues, I wouldn't worry about it, but as it needs a rebuild, it just wasn't worth the cost to rebuild something that isn't all that well suited for jeep use. But I do think think there is a cool factor with old 283s, and maybe it will stick around, get a rebuild and the proper application might be found.....32 roadster?

As for the 'new' 350, it is the classic, 'was running when pulled, rebuilt with low mileage" yada yada yada.....Price was right, and by all accounts from the friend I bought it from, it should be useable without any significant rebuild work. Yup....how many of those stories have you heard that turned out differently? At least in this case, I didn't pay much more than typical core price, so if it is as good as reported, it will be a great deal, and if it needs work, at least I am putting the rebuild money towards an engine with better low end, torquey use for the jeep. Anyway, I will do a basic disassembly: remove the intake, valve covers, heads, oil pan and timing cover. Will inspect the cylinders, rings, timing chain and gears for any significant issues, as well as check the crank. Will be reassembled with all new gaskets and seals, and possibly swap over the intake, carb and distributor from the current engine. I like that I will be able to keep driving the wagon as is while I do the once over with the new 350, and then it should be a relatively simple bolt in replacement....clutch will be replaced then as well, but otherwise, nothing else needed. In the long run, the 3 speed T90 may not stand up to the extra power, but it will work for awhile. I don't want to put any money into rebuilding the transmission - when it goes, it will be time for swap to something stronger. As a new cross-member will be needed at that time, that will also be the time to get the engine moved a couple inches forward in the engine bay (thus the included motor mounts are nice add-in). I kind of like being able to work on this project in smaller steps, and keep it mostly driveable between the steps.

[Jim]

Will you do a compression/leakdown on the motor before you open it?

[FINOCJ]

Not sure I can do a compression test - no good way to stabilize the motor when cranking when its not mounted to the jeep frame. But I do intend to do a leak down test. The motor needs a degreasing first, then it will get MMO/ATF or something similar down into the cylinders to soak and lubricate and turn it over by hand a bit.

[FINOCJ]

I added this to my collection today...I hope to put in the wagon some day....


it was nearby and only cost $40... SM465 early version with 4wd 10spline output - although that doesn't really matter as it would have to get changed to mate to a jeep D18 transfercase. The gears look great, although the input bearing sounds like its grinding a bit....disappointed to find the mated bellhousing had a crack - its cast iron, maybe it can be repaired? Its the old style open bottom bellhousing, so maybe its not that big of a deal, but I was hoping it would be usable as it has the proper 5 1/8'" bearing retainer bore and you can find the bottom cover pans pretty cheap....If the transmission is good and usable as I think/hope, it was worth it. Thinking this could be my winter project in Montana....rebuild with the Novak adapter and mainshaft....pricey but not as pricey as an engine rebuild. I would guess this is more likely to end up in the willys behind the sbc350 rather than the cj5...and it might not happen immediately anyway. Just seemed like too good a deal to pass up....or maybe someone wants to buy it for $140?

[Jim]

www.LincolnElectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/welding-cast-iron-detail.aspx

[FINOCJ]

Jim previously posted:

[FINOCJ]

So, I have been disappointed that the wagon hasn't been more usable since I got it - in other words, I thought what I bought was better than it was (sure that has never happened to any of you!). Anyway, after a bit of thought, and almost selling, the decision was made to keep it, but that also means to start making it usable. It was either sell it or fix it up, it just wasn't going to work for me as is - i.e. barely running. So, we'll see how long this takes...it officially off the road...

Pulled the transmission today...seemed to take me all day, but at least its out. I find the sbc-t90j adapter bellhousing to be a bit odd - and its one source of significant oil leak. Looking through the floorpan tunnel:



When the t90 came out, there is no front bearing retainer on it. Either it seems to be built into the adapter bellhousing, or its stuck in there. As oil flows through the front bearing, it fills the cavity around the center ring, and there is only a paper gasket between the the t90 and bellhousing, and the old gasket was toast letting oil drip out between the two - kind of like a bad RMS leaks out at the front of the bellhousing, but this is at the rear. I am done for today - skiing tomorrow - but I'll get the bellhousing off next and see what its all about. I'll get you pics of the homemade clutch set-up....

[FINOCJ]

Making a bit of progress...
Cleaning up the gunk has been priority #1:


But making progress...the T90 is all clean and set-aside...D18 separated and mostly cleaned up as well as got the yokes and nuts off....glad to find the yoke wrench I made a few years ago could be put to use again. Rebuild kit is on order, but not jumping into right this moment - just trying to do a couple things and clean, then put it back on finger tight and set it aside as for just a bit as well.


Here is the homemade clutch system - cable hooked into the pedal, then goes around the pulley and to the clutch fork with some cable clamps. There is a threaded eye bolt mounted into the fork that the cable connects to with a link....and bailing wire you see on the fork is holding the return spring to the fork. The fork looks like it has been cut and welding to lengthen it....getting this shenanigans fixed up right is another aspect I am not so sure about....thinking a cable clutch set-up like I have on the cj5 that will use a D18 mount I picked up from a member here - would have to weld an angle bracket to the inside of the frame rail to mount the other end of the cable sheath. Don't know much about the OEM wagon clutch system - guessing it doesn't fit correctly with an sbc? Something to look into.



Finally...added another piece of the puzzle...picked up the Novak motor mounts from a member here - thanks Phillip (Jobhater)!


The plan is pull the rest of the bellhousing and clutch, and begin stripping the engine pieces to get it pulled out...

[FINOCJ]

Making progress...I think the only thing left to disconnect is the power steering hoses and pull the pump and bracket (oh and I need to pull the distributor, but it won't come out with the back end held up just a bit high on the jackstand)....Last time I did this on the cj5 I pulled the carb and some other stuff, but thinking it should be okay as is....That is about all I can get done today...going over to clean my father's gutters and then traditional holiday dinner...Happy Thanksgiving all....

[Jim]

Progress!

Happy Thanksgiving!

[FINOCJ]

Engine is out....


now time to decide what is the next step...thinking of cleaning up the engine bay a bit, repairing some of the firewall cutting around the distributor notch-out, look into an electric wiper motor mount and I think I want to take the new to me sbc350 and start doing a bit of test fitting....I am very concerned the steering shaft is going to be in the way of the side block motor mounts to the frame...

[FINOCJ]

Messed up my back the other day so its been slow going - more research and gentle cleaning than doing any heavy work....but learning some cool stuff. Here is some stuff that came out:

Aluminum bellhousing from the T90 to (I think) an OEM powerglide adapter that was on the back of the sbc283....a GM front bearing retainer is housed in the bellhousing for the TO bearing to slide along, and the back of the bellhousing acts as the bearing retainer on the front of the T90....







I was hoping the front bearing retainer that was in the bellhousing was from the t90, but it isn't...its some GM part with 4 bolts used to hold it down (whereas the t90 is 3 bolts), and the its too small to fit over the T90 front bearing....kind of a bummer as a T90 isn't all that useful, but one without a FBR is even more useless.... Anyone think this aluminum bellhousing T90-sbc adapter is worth anything...maybe aluminum scrap?




Not sure what other transmission used to use the same bolt pattern as a T90 - maybe it was somewhat common?...the only identification I can find is FC-93....just wondering if this bellhousing had other applications than just a willys t90 to a sbc with powerglide.....I guess some other companies like IH used the T90, so maybe there was enough demand.

As for the OEM chevy powerglide adapter - did a bit searching and found some examples:
Doing a bit more research - found some oem sbc to powerglide adapters for sale in various places....
1955-1961 Chevy Transmission Adapter Plate V8 Engine To Powerglide 3836782 SHOW | eBay
1956-1961 Chevy/Corvette 3742366 Original V8 Powerglide PG Transmission Adapter | eBay
Chevy Transmission Adapter Plate, V8 Engine To Powerglide, Used, 1955-1957

And just because...the clutch cable and fork set-up that came out:

[FINOCJ]

As for the flywheel and clutch.... the flywheel (casting 3729004), it has 168 teeth and is 14" diameter to the outer edge of the ring gear, so I assume its the 'large' sbc flywheel - hoping to re-surface it and re-use it with the 350/465 combo. From my limited knowledge, I figured any 168t large flywheel would work with an 11' clutch kit, but....Learning a bit more here....looked at the flywheel and realized I don't think an 11" clutch will fit even though its a 168t flywheel....there is a groove that is less than 11" diameter, and the pressure plate mounting holes are not out near the edge of the flywheel...



so as with everything associated with the very early sbc's, I wondered if something was different (and they say all chevy stuff interchanges!)....so although its non-verified internet info, it seemed pretty applicable...that the very early sbc's came with 168t flywheel and 10" clutch, which can now use 10.4" modern clutch kit....so I guess a 10.4" clutch will be the way to go - or get a different flywheel...
From the interweb - my flywheel matches the bottom one:
Below is a 153 and 168 teeth flywheel. The 168 teeth flywheel has the bolt holes near the edge of the flywheel. This is the bolt pattern necessary for an 11in clutch (or 12in).




Here is one of the early 168 teeth flywheels. Notice the bolt pattern for the pressure plate. This flywheel will ONLY ACCEPT a pressure plate for a 10 1/2in clutch.



Anyway, where I am going with this....To use the 168t flywheel with sm465, I will need the correct, large (5 1/8") bore cast iron (possibly aluminum if I can find it) bellhousing as many of the later aluminum and aftermarket ones have the smaller bore and won't fit the larger 168t flywheel (they fit the 153t flywheel). I think I can get one via local CL or ebay etc...And as for the clutch, a standard 10.4" clutch kit (with appropriate sm465 compatible 10spline x 1 1/8") should work, although I may need to verify the flywheel bolt pattern....

[FINOCJ]

Found what I hope is a good usable bellhousing - this is the later, one piece cast aluminum instead of the the earlier, open bottom cast iron ones. Its way lighter, doesn't have the awkward, in the way mounting bosses that I wouldn't be using anyway, and no need to deal with the additional bottom pan cover...I think I overpaid for it, but it was close by. I turned down some flywheels as the purchase price plus resurfacing didn't seem worth it - just buy a new one. Can always go back and get one if needed....

[FINOCJ]

Replacing the rubber puck body mounts on the wagon....here is comparison of the what is coming out vs what is going in....



The replacements are the reported correct 7/8" thick and 2" in diameter....the ones coming out are more like 1/2" thick and 2.25" diameter....I am happy to get a bit of body 'lift' from these - hopefully back to 'normal' so the front fenders and grill/radiator aren't just riding on the frame. Not sure if the ones coming out were 7/8" thick at some point and have squeezed down and out, or if someone used different pucks at some point (I believe Willys p/u trucks and early wagons used something closer to what is coming out, so maybe that is where they came from). Its been a slow, fiddly process, didn't even get half of the them replaced today - although as always when digging into stuff on the willys, I find stuff that needs attention. Ended up spending some time fixing up, stripping and repainting a bracket/brace that goes between the front fender and main body tub....

[The StRanger]

Time...
what a fickled mistress

[FINOCJ]

Here is the difference:
With the old mounts, the body floor channels were sitting on the frame rails:


With the new mounts, the body floor channels have some clearance above the frame rails which should work a lot better...

[Jim]

FINOCJ previously posted:

[FINOCJ]

Hey - these old C-channel frames provide some flex on these old, narrow, stiff inboard leaf springs as compared with more modern set-ups with rigid boxed frames and flexy suspensions....

[Jim]

Just so long as you can push in the clutch pedal and have the clutch disengage...

I'm assuming (with the pulley setup you showed), this wagon has through-the-floorpan / frame mounted clutch and brake pedals?