Engine Diagnosis

[Patrolman]

And here is the same one in NY... Posted on Ebay for $200. More pics. They are willing to put it on a pallet for $50 and ship it out. I just wonder if you could get $300 or more in "parts" from it. It may not be ready to drop in, but it may save you from being nickled and dimed to death if some of the parts can be useful.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Oldsmob...RXxZYD&vxp=mtr

If you end up rebuilding the 225 engine, you DEFINITELY need a set of these! It would make the fresh engine look great!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-1967-19...tTjdUS&vxp=mtr

[FINOCJ]

Interesting - the one in NY from 1965 is the last year of Buick 225 before they sold it to Kaiser. The intake is different and the valve train is different - specifically the rocker arms.

[Patrolman]

Good eye for details. It has been more than 15 years since I had my CJ. Not sure that I ever had the valve covers off either.

The used parts for these engines sure draw a fair amount of $ on Ebay. I am sure if you bought a used engine, any parts you didn't want could easily be sold off.

[Hypoid]

You need to have the crank balanced anyway, why not dream?

https://denver.craigslist.org/pts/5830718974.html

[Spieg]

Hypoid previously posted:

[Hypoid]

Especially since the junkyard might give $200 for all of it!

[FINOCJ]

Hypoid previously posted:

[FINOCJ]

Got see the block, heads and a few other pieces as it was pulled out of the tank yesterday. As this is the first engine I've gotten into its interesting to see and learn - and I might be the only person taking photos of tanked blocks but the machine shop operator is always happy to talk some shop and let me get hands on. The cylinders have a small lip at the top - I can feel it more easily than I thought with just my bare finger. The shop indicated the cylinders could probably just be honed with cross hatch and though it wouldn't perfectly remove the lip, if I was really trying to save money I might be able to go that route and re-use my pistons with new rings. In addition to that being a little bit of a cheap short-cut, the main concern is the wrist pins are extremely tight. It took two of us to get some of the pistons to pivot on the wrist pin. They definitely have to come apart to clean them and he is worried that there will be some damage trying to remove clean and re-install the wrist pins. The shop suggests boring it out fresh (to a total of .060 over) and buying new pistons and wrist pins - I tend to agree. At the moment I am tending toward pretty much replacing anything that is questionable or unknown. Certainly more expensive this way, but I don't really want to do tear it all apart again in the future and hopefully will last as long as I could ever need.
Just because I think engines parts are cool:
pistons and camshaft:


heads - checked the oil passages. Question - some previous work on the engine had threaded and plugged some the oil passages that come up through the heads. According the shop that was probably done with the idea to increase pressure and push the oil up along the pushrods better. Good idea or not?


the bottom end:


progress continues...heading down the the springs with hopes of getting a useable crank (or least core exchangeable) and maybe some front 11in drums and backing plates for a future upgrade from a early cj friend.

[Jim]

Looks nice when it's clean



Any picture of the thrust ?damage? from clutch push?

[FINOCJ]

The damage was mostly to the main bearings, crank and bearing caps as shown back in post 46 - the crank was too damaged to even be ground back into shape. But you can see a bit of the damage to block in the last pic on the inside of the front main bearing area (front is to the left). You can see some unintended 'polishing' - it will need a bit of smoothing up. The ground up metal powder then traveled throughout the oiling system and is probably responsible for the bound up wrist pins. I didn't get a pick of the front cover that houses the oil pump but looks like it ground up some of that area as well.

Here is another pic showing some of the clutch thrust wear - The second bearing from the front (top) is supposed to have the side polishing/lip as it seats the main bearing with the thrust edges, but the other two should not have any polishing along the side. There is also a rolled edge along each of the bearing surfaces that will have to be taken down as well.

[dieseldoc]

Well seems you are well down the road or rebuild it.
Seems you have a good shop do8by the work....
So important to have quality builders do the work....
Side note stay away from Timbuck3 for engine work.....moose can explain this to any one who need clear explanation. I am sure a thread will happen

[Patrolman]

Looks like you are making great progress!

[Patrolman]

Just in case you didn't see it, the newest issue of Petersen's 4wheel and Offroad (January 2017) goes through putting on cheap EFI on a Buick odd-fire V6. Might be the right time to consider it!

[FINOCJ]

Definitely interested to see that.

I went and visited a friend who has put TBI on 5 different odd fire V6 last weekend to learn how he his doing it up close. Using his process, its pretty easy if you don't mind using HEI (which can be found for odd fire easily as it was stock on 76-78 or so odd fires in the Buick Skylark and so on). The other hassle is fuel delivery - which used to be a bigger issue with high pressure fuel lines, but can now be worked around easily with a fuel sump and high pressure pump that feed directly into the carb and comes after all my stock lines, low pressure pump and tank switching valve. You need just a bit of room in the engine bay to mount on fire wall or on fenderwell. Can be done cheap if you don't mind sourcing lots of parts, but can be bought as a kit from FITech for a quite a bit more.

[Patrolman]

The article covers a new fuel tank, fuel pump, intake adapter, etc. I didn't read it word for word since it doesn't apply to me, but it really seems to cover the conversion very well. Let me know if you don't have a copy of the issue.

[66cobra]

Hey, been out of the pocket for awhile. i am surprised in the amount of damage that motor took. Didn't read the whole thread. Looks like the oil could have been fuel laden, did the machine shop have any input?

[FINOCJ]

Machine shop thinks it was mostly bearing wear that caused a lot of metal shaving (babbit) into the oiling system and probably plugged stuff up and also created extra wear on things like the oil pump gears etc. Issues were first noticed Aug of 2015 after a run on MSV Coney, with some noises associated with the thrust bearings (which took me a long time to figure out). After that run I first found some issues with my bellhousing bolts coming loose. But over the next year the clutch was replaced - had some broken diaphragm fingers, the input shaft front bearing and bearing retainer have been replaced due to wear, and the clutch fork had a broken clip on it as well. So, a lot of wear, and not necessarily from a single incident.

Also, When I first got the the Jeep a few years ago, it had an electrical fuel pump inline with the OEM mechanical pump. The mechanical pump had a leak in the diaphragm and I was getting fuel into the oil, but didn't notice the fuel loss at the carb (starvation) as the electrical pump could keep up with fuel demand even with leak. I found the gas in the oil when changing the oil and began investigating to find the issue. I run just a new mechanical pump now and all is good, but not sure how long the oil was diluted by fuel. Guessing that was the beginning of issues, but it took some time and more wear to fully implode. Hope to get some work done this week after some holiday time and delays...might have some good updates soon. Also working on an 11inch front brake upgrade and rebuilding the carb for the rebuilt engine.

[Jim]

Cleaning out some bookmarks last night I came across this page - adding hard drive magnets to the outside of the oil filter as extra help in trapping ferrous metal bits in the oil flow. One could cut open the filter post use to see how much was retained by the magnets. I wonder how much of what you had floating around was ferrous?

http://www.offroaders.com/cheap-tric...ur-oil-filter/

[dieseldoc]

Jim- most babbet materials will be things like chrome and brass.
So the magnet thing would work but only for a bit of the issue.

As for filtration-
http://www.fpevalves.com/productsSpinClean.asp

This is the best way to keep an engine clean and running for a long long long time.

Most fiters are only getting into the 5-10 micron range.
That's the size of my whisker! And most damage is done by smaller particles.
The filter mentioned above will get into the 0.5-1micron.
I get its not cheep, but $500 for a near lifetime filter vs. a $1500 and up engine rebuild.
I th9no the filter sounds like the way to go.

[Patrolman]

Just an FYI, I came across this Jeep with same engine and EFI for $1,000. Might be an option as a "parts" rig and then sell off the rest.

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/cto/5901355943.html