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Thread: spoters

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    Default spoters



    After having a few issues on the trail with groups in the club and not,
    I am seeing that folks dont spot each other.
    This is a oddthing for me after coming from a club in utah.

    Spotting each other is a huge deal.
    This helps everyone.
    Helps the driver get through obsticals, helps the flow of traffic and helps the less experienced folks learn.
    This also helps to keep breakage to a minimum.
    Helps to keep rigs tire side down as well.

    I would like to see this happen. For all of us.
    I have no issues getting out and spotting.
    it kinda falls into the taking care of the guy behind you.

    I dont know if this is an issue for as I have come from a much more extream setting and club.

    I have been behind the wheel of a trail rig for near 30 years.
    And most of the time with tight knit groups.

    Is this something you all are wanting to improve or should I just bugger off?

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    Default Re: spoters



    Part of the issue IMHO is the people you're with rather than the group as a whole. Some people don't know how to pick a line yet thus can't spot anyone. Some know the trails very well and don't need a spotter. Some are afraid to ask for help.

    As far as being a tight knit group this isn't like that. Look at the intro thread and you'll see lots of new people coming to us to learn.

    Personally I trust only the people I've wheeled with and know I can trust their judgement. I also know not to trust some due to lack of experience.

    Just my
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    Default Re: spoters



    One additional comment for anyone who thinks I'm being harsh.

    This is a pic of my truck after a former member "spotted" me.

    Turns out he knew exactly where he was leading me to "get a good pic."
         
    ___________
    Chris in Florida

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    Default Re: spoters



    Spotting is always a good topic, especially at the beginning of the season.

    First, as Chris mentioned, not everyone understands physics well enough to be a good spotter. If you want to put together a presentation of the forces involved, feel free.

    Second, I don't recall seeing any published trail etiquette involving asking for help, or accepting help. Maybe after I mow the lawn I'll feel like searching the forum for the written guidelines involving trail etiquette and safety.
    ___________
    The Lost Boys motto: We don't know where we're going, but we'll be there for awhile. :)

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    Default Re: spoters



    Chris previously posted:
    "Part of the issue IMHO is the people you're with rather than the group as a whole. Some people don't know how to pick a line yet thus can't spot anyone. Some know the trails very well and don't need a spotter. Some are afraid to ask

    Just my "

    very true chris, we are still gettimg to know the club members.
    yet it is still something that would be nice to see happen more.
    spottung is a more involved side of the hobby
    spotting is a very good way to learn as well.
    Therese has spent the last year with me wheeling and is learning more from being out with me spotting.
    as for the many new members this should be done to help them with the learning curve.
    this all I am saying

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    Default Re: spoters



    mike- its not somethung you find in trail etiqutie.
    it something I want to get some discotion going about.
    we are headed into the wheeling session so I want to bring it up.
    I would be more than happy to take small groups out and teach.

    Chris- your experiance is a bad one for sure and a prime example of trust issue with spotting.
    That aspect of it huge....I have few people I trust enough to spot me in the hardcore situations.
    Yet we all should learn how to do this so I wanted to get some convo going about.

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    Default Re: spoters



    Everytime I have been out with members of this group we have spotted each other. I usually run with Larry Hull, and I will always go where he directs me. I have wheeled with Larry since 2000 though and trust his judgement. lots of the trails I run, I have run many times. This doesnt mean I know how they are every time I run them. Normally Im running tail gunner and play catch up to everyone else (get everyone through the obstacle then walk back and come through in my own vehicle). Your right about spotting to learn. I can usually find the sweet spot by watching and spotting everyone else.

    Some folks may flat not want to be responsible for others. basically you are saying "listen to me, and do what I tell you". If, by chance, something does go wrong, and the person wrecks their rig, the spotter can feel totally responsible for the mishap. It happens in our sport. I always say "its not if your gonna roll it, its when".

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    Default Re: spoters



    Bloodbane- totaly agree with yo7 on the"its not its when"
    I have had one rig on its top in my life time.
    One rig layed down in the same spot same side 1 year apart.
    you are so right about the whole trust thing it is a huge part of.

    I wonder how many of the newer folks would be interested in a spoters clinic

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    Default Re: spoters



    One of the first things to know about wheeling is to stay out of the way of people who don't want a spotter. You want to always ask if someone wants a spot first. Sometimes people know their rigs and an obstacle well enough they don't want a spotter unless something slips and they end up in an unfamiliar spot. It is important that new wheelers understand this concept because it works exactly the same but in reverse for them. Often times you will be with a group that has run a trail many times and they won't stop to spot others through because it is within what they are capable of. As a new wheeler it is up to you to stop the person in front of you for guidance if you feel uncomfortable driving through. Never be afraid to ask for a spotter because we all started someplace and know what it feels like to learn.
    I think a small clinic should be held at the start of trail runs though to make sure everybody uses the same signals. Wylie and I have been wheeling for years together and know each others trucks very well(very important) Spotting for Rick in his truck is a different game. We developed our hands signals which are different than most others but work great for us but we try to adapt when others are involved. What it all boils down to is proper communication can be the difference in staying shiny side up.
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    Default Re: spoters



    we have a freind who I very hearing impared, thus hand signelsvare required for him. He has now sence of being off balance aswell so very important to be in sight of him at all times. I must say Rob can drive too.
    When I take groups we cover the spot issue in the driver meating I hold at the trail head. We even have a short one at the meeting point to cover where we are headed to.
    I think a spotting clinic would be a great idea to hold for thos that want to go.
    I think I may plan one in the next few weeks.

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    Default Re: spoters



    Good that you have a short meeting before heading out, we should all make this a regular thing.

    edit: My wife is one of my most trusted spotters.
    ___________
    Chris in Florida

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    Default Re: spoters



    I've never had a problem asking for a spotter. Everyone has been extremely helpful and respectful of my fears of rolling or getting hurt.

    I have only spotted as instructed by the driver - for example he might say "I want my passenger front tire on that rock" and I can get him there. No tricks - no mistakes- his choice.

    I would never wheel with a group that wasn't willing to spot me through stuff I'm not comfortable with. I thought we were all friends after-all...

    The thing I have noticed is that some of the newer members of our group are not paying attention to the basic rule that if you can't see the person behind you, you need to STOP. I have stopped many times and had people in front of me calling on the CB to ask what my problem was... I didn't have a problem other than I couldn't see the person behind me. I effectively stopped the group even though I didn't have a problem.

    There is no shame in having a problem just as there is no shame in having everyone else think you have a problem. Just keep the group together!

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    Default Re: spoters



    I have to admit, I did have a problem keeping track of the people behind me. I get so focused on what is going on in front of me that I loose track of what is behind it. I have made some great strides to keeping track of what is behind me. I hope this year I do much better. As for spotting, I'm not a good person to have spot anyone. Since I'm doing more trails that I've never been on, spotting isn't really an option. I will try if needed.

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    Default Re: spoters



    I'd be interested to see how a spotting clinic would work. I mean, every rig is different and every situation is different. Compare a little Jeep like mine to a monster truck running the same obstacle and you just changed out the possible lines in most cases. I'd hate to be the judge (spotter) unless I really knew what the rig and driver were capable of.

    I think it's a great idea for a meet up and tutorial and I will be happy to attend if possible.

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    Default Re: spoters



    Since communication is obviously a huge part of this conversation, I think the use of CB radios must be brought up. I know so many new people who keep putting off a CB purchase because they want another mod that seems to be more useful on the trail. I'm telling people now: "A CB SHOULD BE ONE OF THE FIRST MODS TO A RIG THAT WILL BE DRIVEN OFF ROAD" . You can't ask for help if the person if front of you doesn't see you and can't hear you. It's a back up for the "wait for the person behind you rule" in case they leave you. Much of the guesswork in group wheeling can be eliminated when everyone has a CB.
    Spotting is essential. If you don't feel comfortable spotting, get out and watch someone else spot and really pay attention to what they are doing. Ask questions about the how and why of spotting. It is only fair that everyone should be working towards becoming a useful spotter.
    If you are driving LISTEN TO AND FOLLOW WHAT YOUR SPOTTER SAYS. again, too many times seen a person with a good spotter on a good line get spooked and start going 'instinctual' and ignoring their spotter, just to end up getting themselves in trouble.

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    Default Re: spoters



    Java- yes a CB is an essential part of the package as well.
    But the issue I have seen right now is we as club have very few folk that know how to spot.
    As I cant pull my eyes out my head to see what I need do we need good spoters.
    I have been the one to get out and spot. On many a run I am spotting the entire group.
    And yet when I want to goo up an hard line on a trail we have not been on I cant with out getting stuck or lifting tires way to far. In fact our last trip out Therese way spooked for the first time when riding in the jeep.
    Trust me I k ow when to back down. I know whenx the rig is getting to light as it iis trying to go over.
    So a spoter would have been nice for sure.

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    Default Re: spoters



    Let's do a run together, doc, and try to do a quick spotting clinic for people. I think it is a great idea. We should pick a run that has a wide variety of obstacles and try to get several types of rigs (ex. Your short-wheelbase Jeep and my long-wheelbase taco) to show how different rigs require different lines and have different advantages.
    We could also do a winching tutorial (that I would need to learn from as I have little winching experience)

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    Default Re: spoters



    As a newbie I will have no problem asking for help or a spotter!i look forward to learning how to navigate trails and welcome any member with experience to help me out.also always ready to help when I can.look forward to doing some trails this year just not into extreme having a stock vehicle.

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    Default Re: spoters



    NativeTaco previously posted:
    "Let's do a run together, doc, and try to do a quick spotting clinic for people. I think it is a great idea. We should pick a run that has a wide variety of obstacles and try to get several types of rigs (ex. Your short-wheelbase Jeep and my long-wheelbase taco) to show how different rigs require different lines and have different advantages.
    We could also do a winching tutorial (that I would need to learn from as I have little winching experience)"


    I think a run down to little moab woukd be ideal for a spoters clinic.
    I to think this would be a great thing for all of us.
    As I have a lot of experiance spotting it is stiil something to get practice at and with different w.b. rigs.
    This would be a great thing to start up a once amounth clinic of some type.
    Maybee the next would be winching tech

    The former club I was apart of had done this and it was great.
    Would give the memders a chance to get out meet the folks they had not wheeled with yet, and gives the new memders oppertunity to push skills in a teaching setting vs. a trail run.
    I have wondered about a maintance clinic as well.
    A proper inspection type thig to learn what to look for.under rig before a trip.

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    Default Re: spoters



    I have never done Illinois gulch, but have had my eye on it for years. Sounds poem a good place to me! I imagine it is open and snow-free already. Anyone know for sure?

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