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Thread: 02/15/15 thanks everybody

  1. #41
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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    This back and forth is getting old, mistakes were made, lessons learned, time to move on. Facts: I wasn't told anything, wasn't shown anything, never heard any comment on the CB, or heard you announce you were leaving.

    The end.
    ___________
    Chris in Florida

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    its all good everybody, relax and take at face value. Nobody's pointing fingers, life's to short. Everybody got home safe and sound.

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Ive been mulling over responding to this all day. Thankfully I was super busy so it kept my mind off the subject until now. There were a number of factors that played into the situation. Considering I was in the middle literally and figuratively for this entire situation I feel it is my right to comment. I will say I did not have a radio so I was a part of the problem. I am not trying to say I did everything right because I didnt. What I will do though is list the mistakes I saw that should have easily been avoided.

    -Poor preparation/planning
    -Lack of true leadership
    -Lack of communication
    -Leaving people behind
    -People willingly leaving the group alone

    - the run was planned without a clear leader and no real preparation other than a couple vehicles airing down. Just before the start Ige decided to be the trail leader because she was the most experienced on this trail. It was clear to me about 5 minutes after leaving the trailhead Ige was in a hurry. She immediately would lose the group any time we were driving. Many of the vehicles in the group had to drive faster than they were comfortable driving in an attempt to keep up. When we caught up and started again Ige was immediately out of sight. After the two FJ cruisers got stuck a couple times Ige showed up and told us she had accidentally taken a trail she didn't mean to take. While this was going on Ryan had been charging ahead and decided to keep going on his own while others decided to turn back. We mulled what to do for a while and I agreed to help Chris go in search of Ryan while everyone else headed down the mountain.

    There were two major rules broken yesterday that are never ever ever supposed to be broken, everyone in the group knew these rules and knew better yet some decided to break the rules anyway.

    #1. You never leave people behind, you wait for them, no matter how slow they are or impatient you are. Especially if you are the trail leader and the only person that knows the trails from experience.
    #2. You never go alone. Confidence, cocky-ness, whatever you want to call it has no place in the mountains. In perfect weather and conditions people end up dead when they split from the group. Mid-winter with a snowstorm in the forecast makes this type of action/thought process exponentially worse.

    Avoiding admitting these mistakes is just as big of a problem as making them in the first place. Sweeping it under the rug and getting upset when others want to teach/learn/grow is immature and should not be tolerated by this group. Backing out of the situation quietly will only reinforce making poor decisions again in the future. People that break these rules need to learn from experience, be remorseful and prove to the rest of the group that they won't make the same mistakes again. At times every has to swallow their pride and leave their attitude at the door or trailhead.

    The positive way out of this situation is using the mistakes made as a training exercise and experience to look back on, not getting bent out of shape over internet posts. In my opinion there should be a group training exercise at the next major get together where this situation is brought up and discussed so everyone in the group will be better as a result. I propose the annual event as the best time for this to happen. I will gladly work with the powers that be to coordinate this if requested and would invite those with the most experience to work on a standard operating procedure for all future trail runs organized through this forum.

  6. The Following 3 Members Say Thanks to Atl-atl For This Post:

    jayson44 (February 17th, 2015),mikeyhcrana (February 17th, 2015),The StRanger (February 19th, 2015)

  7. #44
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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Is it too soon to ask for pictures? :D

    Edit: I'm also curious who all these other people/rigs are that people keep mentioning.

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Hot Dang, NO!

    I've been waiting for the run report since 3am last night!!

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Chris previously posted:
    "This back and forth is getting old, mistakes were made, lessons learned, time to move on. Facts: I wasn't told anything, wasn't shown anything, never heard any comment on the CB, or heard you announce you were leaving.

    The end."

    You have over 12,00 post and you are telling me enough of the back and forth. What is this forum for, social B.S. ???

    Your facts are incorrect.

    This is the begining for me not the end. Because your leadership exposed several basic mistakes, it has made this run an example people should learn from.

    We all know we aren't supposed to go wheeling alone, that is why we all met up, not because we are friends. I don't know any of you but I would help anybody on the trail. Maybe we will become friends. When people break off of the group and leave alone it is because they have lost faith in the leadership. I could not trust you or Ige to get me and my kids out safe that day. I'm sorry you had trouble and others had to come to your rescue.

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    wow. this thread is crazy. the lady doth protest too much, methinks. glad everyone is OK, Rick, Cliff and Wiley are ******* awesome!!

    Just out of curiosity, who exactly was on this run?

  11. The Following Member Says Thanks to Java For This Post:

    Rick (February 17th, 2015)

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    This thread is getting "close" for the guy behind the curtain with a button to press.

    Keep it courteous and constructive or take it to PM or e-mail.

  13. The Following 2 Members Say Thanks to Jim For This Post:

    Chris (February 17th, 2015),Rick (February 17th, 2015)

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    all I can say at this point is wow!!! This situation is a good learning experience. This by far could of been worse but it wasnt. If this is the worst situation you ever get in then you are lucky. I personally have been in way worse and is just part of the hobby... The same things keep getting repeated over and over and that is why its getting old and its starting to get people annoyed. Learn from it and move on....All are to blame for some reason or another for the situation and it is what it is . Can we all be friends again?

  15. The Following 4 Members Say Thanks to Rick For This Post:

    Brandtrbs (February 17th, 2015),Chris (February 17th, 2015),Jim (February 17th, 2015),xaza (February 17th, 2015)

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Rick's post is what is on my mind.

    It's perhaps a perfect way to complete the thread.

  17. The Following 2 Members Say Thanks to Jim For This Post:

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Let's see the good stuff - pics anyone?

    http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/...unday-Feb-15th
    ___________
    Chris in Florida

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Phew. Man, I've never been so happy to have MISSED a trail run. I was intending to go but some things with the wife/family came up and the wx forecast sealed the deal for me personally.

    BUT, I have to say, there's a Jeep commercial in here somewhere....

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Please allow me to apologize to Chris, Ryan, & Mike(along with your passengers) for not being there with you, on the mountain, Sunday evening.


    Also, let me apologize to Rick, Cliff, Wiley, and everybody else that was affected, that I am unaware of, for having to send out a rescue party that night. And thank you for being there when I wasn't.


    I was wrong for leaving when I did on Sunday.

  21. The Following 4 Members Say Thanks to mikeyhcrana For This Post:

    Brandtrbs (February 19th, 2015),Chris (February 19th, 2015),Jackie (February 19th, 2015),Rick (February 19th, 2015)

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    No worries...All turned out fine.... Ive been in your shoes and I do understand.... Now for the next adventure!

  23. The Following Member Says Thanks to Rick For This Post:

    Chris (February 19th, 2015)

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Rick previously posted:
    " Can we all be friends again? "

    ___________
    In a never ending search for the proper mix of dirt & rock !

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    fredrok previously posted:
    "Phew. Man, I've never been so happy to have MISSED a trail run. "

    I dont know.
    I personally like a good story, And I have a feeling this story will be around for a while !!
    ___________
    In a never ending search for the proper mix of dirt & rock !

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    X2!!!

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    mikeyhcrana previously posted:
    "Also, let me apologize to Rick, Cliff, Wiley, and everybody else that was affected, that I am unaware of, for having to send out a rescue party that night. And thank you for being there when I wasn't.
    I was wrong for leaving when I did on Sunday."

    No apologies needed for me, I could have easily said no and it would not have been my problem, I got to go play in the snow! I don't believe anybody disagreed with you about getting your family out while you could, I think someone should have been with you on the way out preferably someone who knows the area. Following your GPS in a large network of trails can lead you astray. Sometimes the shortest way is not the best way in the mountains. We as a group get to make ourselves better from our experiences. Telling people how important communication is does not set in like having a story of why it is so important.
    ___________
    We do not remember days, we remember moments.

    Cesare Pavese

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    Hello Mike,

    Your recent post is refreshing. Thank you.

    From prior, your comment:
    mikeyhcrana previously posted:
    "This is the begining for me not the end."

    put me at attention (for a thread that seemed to be moving in a bad direction).

    The common theme for what "could have been done differently" is evident. We're all for constructive communication to improve things.

    I'm not sure how many group runs you were on since you joined last May, though I believe this will prove to be "not the norm".

    Regards,
    Jim

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    Default Re: 02/15/15 thanks everybody



    I have to say mike ATL mike has a great idea. Use the annual to deal with some of the issilues this and one more run that weekend expossed.
    I by no means am percect. My impatience shows up now and then too.
    As I have been lerkong about with this one I must say very glad everyone ant there rig has made it home.
    Something I have noticed here vs. my utah club, we dont do a drivers meeting at the start of the trail run.
    This was something we did every run no matter how many time someone had been out, or on that trail.
    the leader was always clearly designated, mid man and tail gunner as well.
    The small numbers we have going might be part of that. As we had 10 plus on most runs in southern utah.
    Just a thought....I know for me with something I put together from now on I will be having a drivers meeting at the start of the day.

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