A little teaser on things happening:
A little teaser on things happening:
I'm looking ahead to see what I need to plan for and found out my stock gearing says 3.07 on the differential tags... Can we get an "F" in the chat for my diffs?
Rocking 3.07 and 33's puts me pretty far out from where I assume it should be? It's on 235/75/r15 (29in tire roughtly, 28.9 exact) and it drives just fine. It looks like there's only a 300rpm difference at "final drive" for the numbers on this chart...
Either way it looks like it's going to perform okay on the road, interested to see how it will behave on the trail. For what it's worth I drove this home as it was rocking 33x12.5s and it felt tired like I was having to row the gears a lot. I'm not sure of the path forward yet but most paths are leading toward regear/locker sooner than later.
(I don't think many people on this forum are going to get that reference Schmitty lol)
Something to consider... What reduction gearing you have for low range (do you plan to change it???).
Me, I have 4.10's with 35's - but I have 4:1 (teralow kit) low range. This combo suits me just fine for trail use (most of the time I'm in 2nd / 3rd 4th with a bit of first and rare time in 5th). If I had stock low range, I'd be hurt'n on the trails. My street gearing is "about right". Only on street steep uphills do I see myself dropping one or for a short distance two (steep grades on I-70). I don't tow.
As for the "F" - went looking on the chart for it - so my assumption is fail.
F means to pay respects. From a video game
Do people tend to run lower than stock gearing (after correction) when they re-gear just to help with the lower power at this altitude?
(I don't think many people on this forum are going to get that reference Schmitty lol)[/QUOTE]
hey we're not that old!
I'm surprised to hear you have 3.07. Maybe that was a feature of earlier TJs? My build sheet calls out 3.73 gears for my non-Rubicon LJ. I just assumed 3.73 was standard on TJ and LJs. Does your build sheet say 3.07 also?
Looks like many different gear ratios are factory standard. I'm surprised by the wide variety here.
[quote=rckymtnt4r;343831]found out my stock gearing says 3.07 on the differential tags[/quote]
Oof...and I am with Trent - a bit surprised they offered that high a gearing....but is it an automatic? An ol' rule of thumb is that for calculating CR and figuring out gearing needs, the torque converter acts to help crawl ratio by about 50%. In other words, for a manual, take the axle gearing x 1st gear x low range reduction....somewhere around 40 becomes reasonably functional for most easy and moderate trails around here, and near 60 is pretty sweet for most of us running 33-35s and difficult trails, albeit maybe not full-on rock crawling. For an automatic, you can take the same calculation and then multiply by 1.5 to get the equivalent crawl ratio....this is typically noted in older automatics (3 and 4 speed) in that their 1st gear is quite a bit higher than manuals, but the torque converter offsets that high 1st gear and also allows for higher axle gearing for highway efficiency without sacrificing too much performance.
For a manual, I'd say 3.07 is too high, but it might be doable in an automatic...of course, the good news, if you know you want the 33s, mount them up, drive it around, and if you decide its not performing well enough, then you can change the gearing....or maybe you'll find out its not too bad and just keep driving it....my first cj (1984 cj7) I ran 33s with a tired 258 I6 - it probably should have been re-geared (IIRC I think it ran 3.31?), and it was a bit of a dog on the street. But the stock 3:1 D300 transfer case reduction and the 4:1 1st gear (about the only redeeming quality of the weak T5 transmission), the off road crawl usage was plenty good. Guessing you may find something similar...
He has the same drive train as my Xj (ax-15 manual tranny) my Xj has 3.07 gears also, trust me 33" tires and that gearing is not going to work at all. Especially on the trails. I remember trying to climb the easy side of Slaughter House Gulch. After that trip I immediately went looking for a set of 31"s (that better but still no Bueno). 4.56 is really the best gearing for 33"s and this drive train.
Oh I'm assuming he has a 4.0?????
[quote=Jim;343834]What reduction gearing you have for low range (do you plan to change it???).[/quote]
I'm not sure but it's not what the Rubicon has with it's 4:1 ratio or whatever... I do plan on making a tiny camper trailer or teardrop at some point so [I]some[/I] ability to tow a light load must be retained.
[quote=TDash;343841]hey we're not that old![/quote]
[quote=open_circuit;343844]I'm surprised to hear you have 3.07.[/quote]
I am too, I pulled the numbers from the diff tags... I went to check and [I]womp womp[/I] 3.07 was stamped.
[B]For reference: [/B]The TJ has the 4.0 with the AX15 5-spd.
[quote=JandDGreens;343851]4.56 is really the best gearing for 33"s and this drive train.[/quote]
This is the plan. I went digging in the TJ forums and found [I]lots[/I] of folks pushing for 4.56 gearing at 33in tire size.
Rusty's has a "regear special" that's looking more attractive than a cup of water in the desert right now: [URL]https://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-driveline-driveshaft/jeep-ring-pinions/jeep-ring-pinion-gear-specials/rustys-gear-special-00-01-xj-97-06-tj-97-98-zj-d30-std-front-d35-rear.html[/URL]
so maybe I'll prioritize the regear before upgrading axles...
This is escalating quickly.
3.07 was standard with the 4.0/AX15. That transmission doesn't have much overdrive. So it doesn't need short (higher number) gears, especially with the small stock tires. 33s are a significant change in tire size and a regear is appropriate. And going with more gear than you need to compensate for the tires would be a good idea.
All of the 4 cylinder TJs come with 4:10 gears, you can regear cheaply that way. I did the front axle in my last Jeep that way, cost $150.00 for the whole axle.
Getting all that done will not be cheap...
Edit: The goal right now is to get out and play a little on some trails and use it as a camping vehicle. I may go with 31's in the meantime, bring it down to a 2in lift and save for "the big axles" at a later time. Trying to keep this low-budget currently and projects like this can get out of hand quickly. I'll keep an eye out for some 4.56 gears or some 4cyl axles.
Update: Sourced some 4.56 gears for the D30 and D35 for a pretty good price. I'm calling around soon to get quotes and see what getting them installed looks like, otherwise I'll do it myself.
[QUOTE=rckymtnt4r;343852]This is escalating quickly.[/QUOTE]
welcome to my world, lmao. :lmao:
My wife says the same thing as we talk about the goals for my truck and the current project
hey man, it's just money right?
[quote=TDash;343869]hey man, it's just money right?[/quote]
yeah, it is... got quoted $3000 for a regear...
[quote=rckymtnt4r;343875]yeah, it is... got quoted $3000 for a regear...[/quote]
This is why I still run 3.73 (stock) gears on mine. 4.10 or 4.56 would be nice, but the labor + lockers are not cheap.
Ah, yes. This is the thread I was looking for: [URL]https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/extreme-novice-regear-thread-965764/[/URL]
Posted here for reference if anyone else is interested.
[quote=open_circuit;343876]This is why I still run 3.73 (stock) gears on mine. 4.10 or 4.56 would be nice, but the labor + lockers are not cheap.[/quote]
I'm <s>retarded</s> brave enough to try this on my own. :wrench:
i am 99% sure that whoever had my truck before me never re-geared when they threw the 37s on and there are times my 5.3L feels like a 4 banger so personally i can not wait until i get my new 5.13 gears along with my other crap
Be happy to help you with setting up new gears and installing locker....I am no expert, but have a little experience with diff work and setting pinion depth and backlash etc....it's tedious but not impossible. I'd highly recommend pulling the axles out and working with them on the bench...it may be more work pulling the axles than doing the R&P work.
Taking a guess you probably have a NP231 transfer case which is 2.72:1. Can be converted as Jim said with a Terra low kit to 4:1. Down side with this setup is the number of planetary gears makes it much weaker than the NP241OR 4:1.
transfer case identifying guide:
[quote=FINOCJ;343879]Be happy to help you with setting up new gears and installing locker[/quote]
Thanks James, considering I had the front-end exploded while installing the JKS lift it shouldn't be hard to pull it all apart again. Still on jack-stands getting ready for rear install. I'm out another week or two on getting this thing rolling at this point.
[quote=xaza;343880]Taking a guess you probably have a NP231 transfer case[/quote]
It does, not interested in the Terra low kit. It's overkill for what I have in-mind for this vehicle.
I can help installing gears as well. I have plenty of tools and setup bearings for the D30 and D44.
Somewhere in the back of my mind...is the rear axle a D44 or a D35? Before going a spending much money on upgrading a D35 rear, you may want to do a bit of research and decide if that is the right path. Not saying a D35 is the wrong path (I think Jim still runs one in his YJ with a locker etc), just something to consider and make the right decision for you. Nothing worse than putting a bunch of money into something that you end up wanting/needing to change out in the near future (I am really good as wasting money this way).
TJ came stock with a 35. The 44 was optional.
[quote=FINOCJ;343884]Not saying a D35 is the wrong path (I think Jim still runs one in his YJ with a locker etc)[/quote]
I think I saw a D30/D35 comment above and my thought was the same - use caution on upgrading it.
As for me, while I have the HPD30 in front (ARB locked), the rear was swapped out to an unknown year D44 (ARB locked) with ?likely? some upgraded axle kit.
What I hear is "buy a different used Jeep that's already geared properly and swap the axle". Or hit a pick-and-pull.
Or throw some 31s on it and wheel it hard as is....
[quote=FINOCJ;343891]Or throw some 31s on it and wheel it hard as is....[/quote]
Hold muh beer...
[quote=FINOCJ;343891]Or throw some 31s on it and wheel it hard as is....[/quote]
This is where my mind goes when looking at all the cost/time of everything. I wheeled the crap out of the basically stock 4runner I had when I first started hanging out with y'all. It wouldn't hurt to step back and assess the bigger picture. It'll give me time to figure out a good upgrade path and having the money to throw a Dana 44 on there with disc brakes would be a sweet option, in addition to adding the appropriate mods like adjustable control arms and "hardening" the chassis before I start putting big beefy tires and a locker on there. Having big tires is cool when you wanna show off to your homies at the mall but a country boy makes due with what he's got.
It seems we've come full circle as my intuition told me going with 31's at first would be the most cost effective way to get out there and have fun.
There’s a few tj Dana 44’s on Craigslist even a tj rubicon 44 as well.
Yeah, I saw them. Don't have room in the budget to drop on $1200 axles at the moment.
Got more parts in today to perform this little tweak to add some cheap beef to the steering linkage: [URL]https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/zj-tie-rod-conversion.2373/[/URL]
[QUOTE=derf;343882]I can help installing gears as well. I have plenty of tools and setup bearings for the D30 and D44.[/QUOTE]
Good to know! I really want to learn too! :D I have to do mine soon. Have nearly everything to put together my axles.
i have the ZJ upgrade too, awesome bang for your buck. Have you seen this site for TJ stuff [url]https://www.stu-offroad.com/[/url]
[quote=Paul;343911]Have you seen this site for TJ stuff [url]https://www.stu-offroad.com/[/url][/quote]
I have not but I love detailed writeups like this. Been l digging through the TJWrangler forums and this guy's site is a little gold mine: [URL]http://www.4x4xplor.com/mods-TJ.html[/URL]
I've been agonizing about how stupid bumpstop extensions are (upper) because they contact the springs at full flex. I wanna get as much flex out of this thing at the ride height it'll have so I've been doing my homework. It started with looking at how stuff the JKS lower front control arms are and wondering "How does the stiffness compare to stock?" so off to the garage with a little experiment.
The front axle travel was tested with stock components then against the jks lower control arms and extended bumpstops. Lo and behold the stock configuration flexed better. You might ask yourself "Why? Isn't aftermarket better?" well that's what I thought too but upon observation I noticed the stock bent steel control arms actually twist quite a bit whereas the DOM tubing don't and rely on the rubber bushing to do all the work. The beefier aftermarket control arms while stout will put more strain on the brackets holding them to the body/axle. Hmm...
Why's this important? I'm building this Jeep to be as minimal but capable as I can and taking things into consideration as I upgrade it to fit that role.
Thus leads me to bumpstops... How can I avoid using aftermarket bumpstops that interfere with the spring travel? Some digging around lead me to some fellas talking about drilling holes in hockey pucks and mounting them to the top of the front spring perches. Well after about 2 whole seconds of thought and a quick look at the axle I happily gave Amazon [B]13 whole dollars[/B] for 6 lovely little rubber pucks. This is the result and my experimentation.
Mock flex with hockey puck bump stops:
I had read about people having issues with aftermarket adjustable front track bars having clearance issues, well it definitely has more than 1/2 inch clearance so that's good.
Proof of concept is ready for action. Gotta check clearance with tires on but I'm really liking what I'm seeing here.
That's all for my random evening ramblings and fiddling with things.
I used hockey pucks on my jk. Just contact rubber cemented them in. Got em for a couple bucks from play it again sports.
Oh yeah that's the stuff