'Red Rock Rhino' V8 Engine Build

[Red Rhino]

I am starting my new SBC engine Build. The block and crank are in the machine shop at Gunn Automotive.

I am building a Custom Computer Controlled Fuel Injected, 10.25:1, 1000-6000 RPM motor and shooting for a 'Mild' Rock Crushing 400 hp and 400 tq.

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

These are the parts I have received so far:

[Rob]

Sweet. What's you timeline on this project?

[transplant87]

Damn that is going to be a kick a** motor and i would love to be involved in the build

[tonkatoy]

:wrench:are you going to keep it a 350 or go 383

[Red Rhino]

The machine should be finished in 2-3 weeks. One week-end to build long block. One week-end to build Fuel Injection. One week-end to install Engine, Transmission, and T-case. This is all in a perfect world. ;)

And perfect weather.

Bryan

[Red Rhino]

are you going to keep it a 350 or go 383

I have a 350 crank in great shape and wanted to keep the machine and parts cost down. The block is a strong 4 bolt main, so I do not mind rev-ing it a bit.

[Brody]

Nice, Bryan!

[Mporter]

Purdy

[southpaws3]

ooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! NICE

[Brad]

I just love getting new parts!! :D

[Brody]

Bryan, you know you want a super charger and 600 ponies.....Aside from simply making a statement with the supercharger sticking up outta the hood...

[southpaws3]

speaking of super charger the marine shop in arvada has a under the hood charger for $800 -------huuuuuummmmmm!

[Red Rhino]

Damn that is going to be a kick a** motor and i would love to be involved in the build

My schedule is not very predicable, but I will let you know?

[Air Randy]

I hope you have 35 spline axles in those tons with 400 horses! I have a nice warm shop if the weather doesn't cooperate.

[Red Rhino]

I hope you have 35 spline axles in those tons with 400 horses! I have a nice warm shop if the weather doesn't cooperate.

Yes, I have the Military 1 ton axels with 35 splines, but with Full Float and lockers I can break a shaft or two and still get home. Thanks for the offer on the shop, I will keep it in mind. I only have a 2 car garage right know. My shop in the back has a ways to go, all I have finished is the driveway . I am looking at a 30'x60' +/- Metal building with 14' ceilings and RV doors, but one project at a time.

[Red Rhino]

Bryan, you know you want a super charger and 600 ponies.....Aside from simply making a statement with the supercharger sticking up outta the hood...

I would love one, but I want to keep the rig understated, quiet and Earth Friendly. ;) Ok I can not tell a lie. The real reason is; I might suck a Prius into the Blower and I would not want to scratch the finish on the Blower.

These are great inspiration, I just might change my mind:

[Red Rhino]

More Parts: 10.5:1 Pistons!!! :thumb:

[Red Rhino]

The crank is polished and fully balanced with the complete rotating assembly.

[Haku]

ooooh....shiny!!

Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see this thing put together and in your truck. Definitely going to have to get it out wheeling afterwards.

[Red Rhino]

This is the block back from the Machine shop. Gunn Automotive did a great job. I had it cleaned, crack checked, bored .040 over, cam bearing installed, and the main bearings line honed.

[Roostercruiser]

Nice can't wait to hear it run.

[Red Rhino]

It should good with Duel 3" Flowmaters.

[Red Rhino]

The crown jewel of this build, they are so beautiful I almost stopped breathing! ;) I did a lot of research and the AFR heads are about the best V8 heads out there. This design is good for up to 550 hp but have the best low end Torque on the market (I should get about 410+ ft/lb’s with my set up). They are fully CNC machined Aluminum and one of the only ones on the market that are CNC ported as well.

[Cr33p3r]

Man Bryan that is gonna be sweet when it is done. I miss engine building!

[Red Rhino]

Thanks! Since I do not have any car payments, I decided to do this build right!

[Red Rhino]

First big step, Crank, mains, rods and pistons installed.

PS the red is Redline assemble lube not blood. :lmao:

[Brody]

Looking good!

So...let me get this straight. When this is done, you are going to call me to schedule the install into my heap, right?:lmao:

[Red Rhino]

I would be happy to do it, but I know how wrong it is to contaminate a Toyota with a Heavy Chevy Iron lump. ;):lmao:

[Brody]

Since there is absolutely nothing wrong with horse power, I have never felt like it would be contamination. Toyota should have just made a simple and strong V8 that is as easy to modify (and cheap) as a Chevy 350.

BTW, I contaminated a 1980/81 Yota with a Holley Pro Jected 302 about 20 years ago and aside from having to move the radiator forward and use a bigger one, adding a couple of leaves to the front and fabbing the motor and tranny mounts, it wasn't a big deal. I went with the Ford mainly due to the fact that I got a hellacious deal on the engine and tranny out of a 77 Mustang that had been rolled and the fact that the distributor was located on the front of the block with allowed me to do the swap without carving into the firewall.The worst thing about that truck was trying to keep drive shafts under it, so some right foot management training had to be done....

When the supercharged 3.4L finally goes in the current heap (all the compression values were withing 10 pounds of stock specs, so it may be awhile), a Chevy 350 is going to be the motor of choice to stick in.

I have never seen the reasoning behind people rebuilding the 22R/RE 4 banger and going through the overbored, decking the heads, yada, yada, all to squeeze another 30 hp out of a puny ass engine. The end result is usually they end up spending the same amount or more than it would cost to drop a small block V8 (or 4.3L Vortex) into it and still have a POS 4 banger engine that will last for 300k miles and grind up hills at 45mph. This reasoning is simply beyond me, but I guess people get stuck in the Yota mentality too much. Even tossing a 3.4L in is usually more inexpensive than rebuilding the 22RE. I did my whole 3.4L swap, including supercharger, for $2600, without adding in headers or a fuel upgrade kit.

I have just never liked the feeling of trying to push the gas pedal through the floor and red lining the engine going up hills in 3rd gear, much preferring to have a major amount of pedal left and cruising up hills at 70/75 in 5th gear with the rpms hovering around the 2k mark....and no strain on the engine...

[Haku]

I have never seen the reasoning behind people rebuilding the 22R/RE 4 banger and going through the overbored, decking the heads, yada, yada, all to squeeze another 30 hp out of a puny ass engine. The end result is usually they end up spending the same amount or more than it would cost to drop a small block V8 (or 4.3L Vortex) into it and still have a POS 4 banger engine that will last for 300k miles and grind up hills at 45mph. This reasoning is simply beyond me, but I guess people get stuck in the Yota mentality too much. Even tossing a 3.4L in is usually more inexpensive than rebuilding the 22RE. I did my whole 3.4L swap, including supercharger, for $2600, without adding in headers or a fuel upgrade kit.

I have just never liked the feeling of trying to push the gas pedal through the floor and red lining the engine going up hills in 3rd gear, much preferring to have a major amount of pedal left and cruising up hills at 70/75 in 5th gear with the rpms hovering around the 2k mark....and no strain on the engine...

My engine rebuild cost half of what your install did (which I have no idea how you managed for that price especially including the super charger), didn't require any modification to the wiring or exhaust, with upgraded parts and a simple over bore, and will last quite a while. Its a whole new ball game installing a 3.4 in a 22re engine compared to the 3slow engine. Nothing is compatible, and requires adapters to be bought for the transfercase, new harnesses to be made or bought, new engine mounts, new transmission, completely new exhaust to be made and the list goes on. I'll be the first to admit I don't work on rigs as fast as some, but it would have taken me even longer then it did, with significantly more cost then I was prepared for. Maybe if I was gifted the engine and transmission or something. There is a reason why it says to expect to pay upwards of $5000 on the ORS website for that swap.

I'm all for Horesepower too, but sometimes its just not the viable answer. Honestly, a turbo upgrade would be enough to make the "cruise at 75 in 5th gear" a possibility.

[Brody]

Been a long time since I had a 22RE with a turbo, so when does the turbo kick in rpm wise? I don't remember. I have had about 7 variations of the 22R/RE and the only thing that it seemed to do really well in was the sedan (like Corolla/Celica) style cars. Since I have had so many in trucks and 4Runners with the 22R/RE, I just got burned out on the "slow" part, especially since I was living in the mountains when I owned almost all of them and the hills just killed me. Killed a couple of engines, too...

If I had a I was going to trailer or was designing with light weight in mind and didn't have to drive to the trails, the 22R/RE would be right on top of the list. Other than that, I have been on too many trail runs and some climbing trips where our speed getting to the trail was dictated by the 'guy(s) with the Toyota', generally meaning with the 4 bangers. I have also known many people who tossed a lot of money at getting more hp out of the little engine and weren't happy with the bang for the buck results.

And, for sure, the 3.4L swap, as with most engine swaps, is big bucks unless you can do all the work yourself. Luckily when I did the swap, I was in the process of building a 16,000sf mansion with one 3 car garage and one two car garage and no time frame on getting my swap done. I designated the 3 car garage as 'Pete's Place' (hell, I was half owner in the home...if you can call something that big a 'home') parked my heap dead center and worked on it on the weekends and after work. No idea how much time was involved in the engine swap itself as I was also doing a mess of other things to the heap, but overall, it was substantial. I would be hard pressed to do another engine swap (unless it was a one day 22RE/22RE in and out) where I am living now. I was happy to find out that my engine problems were electrical, not engine related for that reason. I would have either had to rent a space or hire it done, neither of which happens to be in the budget...

[Haku]

Been a long time since I had a 22RE with a turbo, so when does the turbo kick in rpm wise? I don't remember. I have had about 7 variations of the 22R/RE and the only thing that it seemed to do really well in was the sedan (like Corolla/Celica) style cars. Since I have had so many in trucks and 4Runners with the 22R/RE, I just got burned out on the "slow" part, especially since I was living in the mountains when I owned almost all of them and the hills just killed me. Killed a couple of engines, too...

If I had a I was going to trailer or was designing with light weight in mind and didn't have to drive to the trails, the 22R/RE would be right on top of the list. Other than that, I have been on too many trail runs and some climbing trips where our speed getting to the trail was dictated by the 'guy(s) with the Toyota', generally meaning with the 4 bangers. I have also known many people who tossed a lot of money at getting more hp out of the little engine and weren't happy with the bang for the buck results.

And, for sure, the 3.4L swap, as with most engine swaps, is big bucks unless you can do all the work yourself. Luckily when I did the swap, I was in the process of building a 16,000sf mansion with one 3 car garage and one two car garage and no time frame on getting my swap done. I designated the 3 car garage as 'Pete's Place' (hell, I was half owner in the home...if you can call something that big a 'home') parked my heap dead center and worked on it on the weekends and after work. No idea how much time was involved in the engine swap itself as I was also doing a mess of other things to the heap, but overall, it was substantial. I would be hard pressed to do another engine swap (unless it was a one day 22RE/22RE in and out) where I am living now. I was happy to find out that my engine problems were electrical, not engine related for that reason. I would have either had to rent a space or hire it done, neither of which happens to be in the budget...

It really depends on what turbo you choose. You can go with a small one, and it will be at full spool at 1500-1800rpm but it doesn't push much air, or a bigger one and it will fully spool at higher RPMs but push more air. For a 22re, unless you are going to get forged pistons or something and really try for high numbers, a smallish turbo should do fine. I was going to use the stock WRX one out my Subaru, which would be at full spool around 1800rpm in a 2l Subaru Flat4, so it should be fairly comparable for the 22re which is a 2.4l. Also, those ratings are "full spool" meaning its at its peak rate at that rates, but will start pushing air much sooner.

For reference, I've seen up to 275hp to the wheels out of a fully built 22re, but thats a "full on" build. Thats almost 200hp over a stock 22re engine to the wheels from Dyno sheets I have seen. You can expect to get 50-100hp gain with a more reasonable gain. That puts it very much in the realm of a Supercharged 3.4l without the URD kit installed.

The best option for the 22re though, is to go turbo propane. VERY simple, propane takes very well to Forced Induction, and engines love it since it propane burns much cleaner. Downside is you have to find propane providers wherever you a traveling. Gotpropange sells a kit, and they say with 15psi of boost, they get 264hp. For reference, the URD kit for the 3.4l is supposed to up the HP rating to 240hp and 260hp if you are lucky.

So in other words, its not an easy answer and there are a ton of different variables. I don't feel like I lack power anywhere but on the highways at speeds above 50mph. I'm sure a 50hp boost would change that quite a bit, and 100hp would change it a ton. Pretty sure that if I ever get a trail rig, propane will be on the short list of upgrades for my crawler.

Anyways, enough with the 4banger chat. This thread is about Bryan's soon to be sweet new engines. I was there when those heads got delivered and have seen the rest of the parts. Needless to say, that is going to be one super sweet engine. Throw a cage in the Rhino, and that will be one VERY capable rig. Bryan already styles up most of the obstacles and makes it look easy.

[Red Rhino]

Ok, I know it has been a while, but... I have been busy so it is time finish posting up my build.
This is the Finished Long Block.

[Mporter]

Mmmmm shiny. When you gonna get it finished?

[Red Rhino]

It is finished and running. I am just slow getting the Pics up. I am planning on doing a trail run this week end.

[Red Rhino]

These are the last of the shiny new parts.

Old school Cal Custom Corvette Valve covers.

[Mporter]

Ah nice. Glad to see it's finally done and pushing some rubber.

[Red Rhino]

Thanks, and yes it is hard on the tires. The first time wife drove it she lite up the 35's coming out of the drive way, it scared her just a bit. She was use to the old stock motor. I will try to get a Video of it up as well. It sounds so good it wakes the dead a 1/4 mile away and the old Troll that lives next door. I love Flowmasters.

[scout man]

Ill have to get with you sometime this fall and see if I can pick your brain on this stuff. I think I am going to rebuild my spare enigne this fall if I can afford it, and I would love some help with it, as its my first. No time now though! Cant wait to see what you have done to this thing!

[Haku]

I can attest that it is indeed a beastly machine after the rebuild. He's still breaking it in, but its already noticeably more powerful then before. No changes to the exhaust, but the larger ports and such already make it much louder and raw sounding (in a good way). It had some teething problems, but Bryan has figured them all out and its starting to get back to its glory days.

We both have joined the club workshop recently, and I can't imagine how this would have gone without it. Lots of nice things to have there like multiple engine hoists, a car lift, parts washer, and many others.

Sounds like its going to hit its first trail after the new engine this weekend, should be good.

Josh

[Brody]

Nice to hear! I love V8s...

[Red Rhino]

This is the Finished Motor in the K5.

[oppositemind]

mmmmmmm, sexy :-D

[Red Rhino]

I had to build a 2nd custom Fuel injection System to keep up with the Hi-flow AFR heads and 10:1 pistons. The first EFI system I put on it was a large bore throttle body 454ci setup for BBC with stock pistons. It ran out of fuel before the motor hit 2500 RPM. So then I went to plan ‘B’, a full custom built and tuned TBI EFI. I used a Performance Holley 950 Commander Throttle body and Computer. I then built custom Fuel, Spark, and O2 maps on my Laptop. It is almost dialed in. I have spent a lot of time driving around and Data Logging but it is worth it when it runs like it does.

[Haku]

Here is a video of Bryan starting it up. Its not the first time, but its pretty darn close....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emTgujJ6SMQ

The sound really doesn't do it justice. Thats with just the headers on there and it is VERY loud. I have some pictures and such of when we were working on it and such too that I'll post later.

Josh

[Mporter]

That thing is nasty.

[Red Rhino]

If you like my Prison Jump Suit give a 'HELL YA'.

I bought it to give the nosey old guy next door something talk about.

[Red Rhino]

Josh,

Thank you for posting that up !!!!

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

[Haku]

No problem Bryan.

Here are the pics I spoke of....

Engine Building Fun
http://fzsiqw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pa8DpqquZvKdJZSHGxWDjTvFbEGZm14JxeSEBYhzcZngIYCc X-gxa7qmTxlhwuSWT4sefDth2NQBQghfsC6t0TrRGLgMBU96a/Bryan1.jpg?psid=1

http://fzsiqw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pa8DpqquZvKd3WGwIMa1ufPNGY8MhUbyLpKPjO9wj6tK6wd1 rjr0b2mXiLGMm9IClvQ949-Dl91QyJMytLfIgwvQ5h1Rvaezt/Bryan2.jpg?psid=1

http://fzsiqw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pv1Pv92T1FEBo7T_E-aTrwolk8SzGHZucHF2kZT1XExrhf1q7RPwzch1xvQqtaMwGYRD JYGOI7AIq5wmZh_syVeuUSfgagAns/Bryan3.jpg?psid=1

http://fzsiqw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p5JbRCDV39aSorXq6k6uLlp4zJPX2NuoNmdthNX16MJsJR0C VYt9bVfxzUsftYZ1d1mt8wfE2utLD5E5cSZys--fMdVJhw4Hx/Bryan4.jpg?psid=1

Getting her ready to place in the truck
http://fzsiqw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pwDNeay5pIJiE7Om-eAbQLF4-e4SwCo1Mo7yJIVc-duPIC7X-QA1PVm6COH1zJtNU2e_eWjlXvD4JZ6BwFD2A6R_H7OQPccO6/Bryan5.jpg?psid=1

I got bored and took an "artsy" one...
http://fzsiqw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pVS-CyuaAnHuYQYjOoqgqwFctMB9JP3y_csnB-vQDFzeoFcpQsUa4tZ9xoc40Jjb76WGYuMRhe-UkAM3nZbkuZ0Grox4Nx9t1/Bryan6.jpg?psid=1

Enjoy. I'm sure you will.

[Red Rhino]

The last Mod I had to do was on the Automatic Transmission. I modified the Valve Body of the 700r4 to handle the extra power. It shifts like butter at Low RPM and like a 2x4 up side the head at Wide Open Throttle.

Bryan

[Brody]

You just do a valve body shift kit mod or something else? I have had good luck with just a straight up shift kit and big horsepower. Just curious..

[Red Rhino]

I did valve body shift kit and new electronic control module.

[Brody]

Obviously a little newer stuff than I am used to. I never messed with any of the electronic stuff mainly because I never had any to mess with. I bet that smooths things out all through the rpm range and allows for more fine tuning than the simple valve body mechanical stuff.