Bashed steering stabilizer and death wobble

[cfr]

Went to Dillon over the weekend and ran Deer Creek and Saints John Road near Montezuma. Awesome scenery. More pics on that in the trail reports section later.

As you can see, the shock tube is bashed in and the shaft is bent. What you can't see is that it was oozing fluid too.

This, combined with other probable damage (track bar, alignment, or tire balance, etc) have left me with what appears to be bump-steer induced death wobble. E.g., if I hit a bump at speed it begins an un-damped oscillation that gets worse until I slow down to a near stop.

Scared the crap out of me on the way home on I-70 exiting the Eisenhower Tunnel. It was pretty bad as the cars around me started their evasive maneuvers.

I've got a new steering stabilizer and re-location bracket (so this won't happen again) on the way. It was supposed to be here via FedEx by 3pm today, but was somehow delayed. :mad:

[Rob]

Glad you made it home in one piece. I know what that death wobble is like.

How did it happen?

[cfr]

How did it happen?

Sadly, I'm not really sure. However, I'm fairly confident that it wasn't busted up before I left as I had John's 4x4 in Boulder do a "pre-trip inspection/service" where they look everything over, re-torque the suspension bolts, etc.

The trail wasn't that difficult and there were real no obstacles to speak of (but there were two pretty intense hill climbs). Chances are I got to talking, wasn't paying attention, and just bashed a rock and didn't notice.

[Rob]

Wow. It looks like it took a pretty good whack, but also it doesn't look that substantial so I can see it clipping a rock without your feeling it.

[1freaky1]

Definitely good you made it home in one piece w/o further damages to you or the ride!

[Brody]

Should've just taken the stabilizer off on the way home. Things don't do all that much anyway.

Simple to align the rig again. Just measure (as the rig sits on a flat surface) the same distance up from the floor, front and back on the front tires. Then measure the distance between the tires at the same point, also front and back. Your front measurement should be anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" narrower. Adjust it until it is. Now you are aligned again, 20 minutes later....

Was the suspension under warranty and the tightening free? Just curious as to why you didn't do this yourself. I tighten up anything I can get my hands on under my heap about at least every two weeks and more often than that if I am doing a lot of trails. It just never crossed my mind to either pay to have someone do it or to have anyone else do it. I want to see what is going on under my rig and when I tighten up junk, I am also taking a good look at the frame, wires, tubing, and anything else that may be amiss...A paid mechanic, unless you are good buddies with them, isn't even going to bother....

[cfr]

Fixed. Added a new steering stabilizer and a relocation bracket that flips the steering stabilizer up and out of the way so this isn't likely to happen again. If you compare this with the original picture you'll see what I mean (different angle though).

Had it aligned too, but I find that steering problems are a bit strange because once you start micro-analyzing everything that's happening it's very difficult to get things "perfect".

[cfr]

Was the suspension under warranty and the tightening free? Just curious as to why you didn't do this yourself. I tighten up anything I can get my hands on under my heap about at least every two weeks and more often than that if I am doing a lot of trails. It just never crossed my mind to either pay to have someone do it or to have anyone else do it. I want to see what is going on under my rig and when I tighten up junk, I am also taking a good look at the frame, wires, tubing, and anything else that may be amiss...A paid mechanic, unless you are good buddies with them, isn't even going to bother....

I'm not nearly as handy as you. I paid for an hour of labor while I worked on a spreadsheet for work. Prior to my trip to Moab I did the same thing and they found a problem with one of my swaybar disconnects that I probably could have found myself. However, they had some spare parts laying around and were able to quickly fix it up.

[Speedwagon]

The stabilizer just masks an inherent problem. Doesn't mean you can economically fix the problem, but it does just mask it.

Here's an article on the issue: http://kevinsoffroad.com/techarticles/deathwobble.html

[cfr]

The stabilizer just masks an inherent problem. Doesn't mean you can economically fix the problem, but it does just mask it.

Here's an article on the issue: http://kevinsoffroad.com/techarticles/deathwobble.html

Yep, I get that. Replaced the stabilizer because it was broken.

This is the big vehicle-specific thread on death wobble on one of the forums I read,

http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?132779-Diagnosing-Death-Wobble-and-Fixing-Non-DW-Shimmies-and-Wobbles

[Brody]

The stabilizer just masks an inherent problem. Doesn't mean you can economically fix the problem, but it does just mask it.

Here's an article on the issue: http://kevinsoffroad.com/techarticles/deathwobble.html

Thanks, Mitch. I was trying to explain the same concept to Rob (DrUnit...Old). If the steering doesn't have a problem to begin with, then the stabilizer is superfluous. If the steering has problems, the stabilizer just masks them. I took the stabilizer off my heap long before I did the PSC hydro assist (as being a needless piece of junk) and never noticed a difference, even running 37 x12.50s and then 37x14.50s. I also had taken them off the last 4-5 rigs I have owned for the same reason, again noticing no difference in performance or handling.

[cfr]

The stabilizer just masks an inherent problem.

Think I fixed it... While the new steering stabilizer corrected it enough to remove major danger (wouldn't let my wife drive it until that was fixed), there was still a problem. Steering felt loose (though hard to describe), and I could feel a vibe start when hitting a bump and then get damped by the SS. It was subtle, but noticeable.

Went to Sears last night and bought breaker bar (just in case; to loosen things) and a click-style torque wrench. Tonight, I loosened both bolts on the front track bar, jumped up and down on the front bumper, tightened both to 125 ft-lbs (according to spec; damn tight), and went for a quick test drive. Steering was tight with no evidence of vibration.

I won't know for sure until I drive it for a couple of days, but I'm very pleased with the results so far.

Any reason that we shouldn't be using Nord Lock locking washers for stuff like this? Seems like that would solve a lot of problems.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgwmuZuJ02I

[Brody]

Went to Sears last night and bought breaker bar (just in case; to loosen things) and a click-style torque wrench. Tonight, I loosened both bolts on the front track bar, jumped up and down on the front bumper, tightened both to 125 ft-lbs (according to spec; damn tight), and went for a quick test drive. Steering was tight with no evidence of vibration.

Any reason that we shouldn't be using Nord Lock locking washers for stuff like this? Seems like that would solve a lot of problems.[/video]

No reason at all for not upgrading and using the Nor Locks or anything else that holds better. One of the reasons that they don't come with suspension stuff is that they are expensive. This is along the lines of upgrading to safety wire rather than using the cheapo cotter pins, going with ARP nuts and bolts, or upgrading to a harder hardware.

I use the safety wire for everything that requires cotter pins on my rig, and have also stuck a tack weld on the jam nuts on my tie rods. Nothing wrong at all with a bit of overkill. Stuff loosens up if you wheel your rig a lot and you do. Nord Lock makes good products and you can easily justify the expense as this is going to make things a bit safer...

[Hypoid]

I didn't listen to the sound, interesting vid all the same.

I'm not sold on the Norlock, you'll have to do a write-up if you try them. Until then I'll get by with lock nuts/thread locker and a torque wrench.

If your JEEP has factory steering, you need the damper. There is a reason you don't see factory parts or configuration on serious builds. :mad:

[WINKY]

my question is, whos vehicle vibrates at 50,000rpm to get a bolt to walk out.....?

[Volcom]

Should've just taken the stabilizer off on the way home. Things don't do all that much anyway.

Simple to align the rig again. Just measure (as the rig sits on a flat surface) the same distance up from the floor, front and back on the front tires. Then measure the distance between the tires at the same point, also front and back. Your front measurement should be anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" narrower. Adjust it until it is. Now you are aligned again, 20 minutes later....

Was the suspension under warranty and the tightening free? Just curious as to why you didn't do this yourself. I tighten up anything I can get my hands on under my heap about at least every two weeks and more often than that if I am doing a lot of trails. It just never crossed my mind to either pay to have someone do it or to have anyone else do it. I want to see what is going on under my rig and when I tighten up junk, I am also taking a good look at the frame, wires, tubing, and anything else that may be amiss...A paid mechanic, unless you are good buddies with them, isn't even going to bother....

I'm like Brody, try to do everything to my cars & trucks that I own. But I learned with the new JK's, the air bags are tied into the alignment of the steering wheel. If they aren't perfectly aligned, the air bags won't go off. If your alignment is off and it in turns moves your steering wheel off-center, your air bags won't work. Just a heads up.

[cfr]

my question is, whos vehicle vibrates at 50,000rpm to get a bolt to walk out.....?

Of course, the vibration test rig is an extreme example to prove their point. The Nord Lock is probably overkill for consumer applications.

[scout man]

not sold on the Norlock, you'll have to do a write-up if you try them. Until then I'll get by with lock nuts/thread locker and a torque wrench.

I am sold on them. They are holding my front drive shaft on, a task seemingly difficult judging by the drive-shaft sized hole in my old tranny. I simply could not get any bolts to stay in there no matter how tight (a little hard to do with the location), or loctite or anything. These definitely did the trick, and you can tell the difference for sure if you ever try to remove a bolt that has been tightened down with these.


my question is, whos vehicle vibrates at 50,000rpm to get a bolt to walk out.....?
Mine must, as I have bolts walk out all the time! The one listed above, plus the drive to Moab in the scout loosened my rear bumper bolts as well as a couple of others. It might not walk out as fast as in the video, but bolts do like to walk!

[Brody]

If your JEEP has factory steering, you need the damper. There is a reason you don't see factory parts or configuration on serious builds. :mad:

OK, I'll bite, MIke. Why do you need the damper on factory Jeep steering? I took the steering stabilizer off the 91 XJ I had, off of another Jeep 1980s something or other, off of a 78 Cherokee, off of a Ford F150, and off of more than a couple of Yotas I have had with no issues. Now I am curious. Does Jeep make their stock steering with so much slop in it (as in 3rd world machining...you know...plus or minus 1/4" is good enough for the gringos) that they require a stabilizer???

[Hypoid]

Does Jeep make their stock steering with so much slop in it (as in 3rd world machining...you know...plus or minus 1/4" is good enough for the gringos) that they require a stabilizer??? In a nutshell, yes. You have to pay top dollar for quality. You shouldn't have to worry about manufacturers producing parts that don't even meet QC standards because they can save a fraction of a penny per unit. The Chineese have proven to be very adept at making anything just a little cheaper than the last run.

As for the design, I have to admit my head was stuck in the inverted-y design out of my own frustration. The JK's steering arrangement coulda-shoulda been done for years.

Pete, the reason you don't have problems that 99% of the population does, is because you are meticulous to a fault. The rest of us just want to jump in our cars and drive. :steer:

[Hypoid]

I am sold on them. Good to hear from someone who isn't trying to sell anything. How much did they cost?

[Haku]

Good to hear from someone who isn't trying to sell anything. How much did they cost?

They cost more then a standard lock washer, but not exorbitantly so. I would say $.50-.75 cents per set is my experience so far. Fastenal or any other fastener supplier sell them. So far, in my experience they make a huge difference and are superior to all other "anti-vibration" countermeasures. It doesn't need to vibrate at 50,000 cylcles or whatever to work itself loose, that video just shows the extreme at which these work.

I agree that its much better to work on the cause of an issue and not just try to cover it over. I would just go over your steering system with a fine toothed comb and make sure its all nice and straight and all the pieces that came with the lift kit you had installed all look legit.

I guess its your prerogative if you want to pay someone to do something you can do with a basic set of tools and 20 minutes, but its definitely worth figuring out how to do this stuff yourself. I know you go out on your own often enough, and doing so could save your butt if something goes wrong out on the trail. You aren't going to hurt anything under the car using a 3/8th's socket set, but you could save yourself some major pains with it. In my opinion, wheeling and wrenching go together, so its time to get your hands dirty aye? Handy or not, its something that nearly everyone is capable of doing.

Josh