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Thread: Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report

  1. #1
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    Default Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report





    I did Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire yesterday with another TJ. I put a Currie AntiRock kit on my TJ on Thursday, so this was a good test. First the tech report, then the trail report:

    The Currie AR is advertised as an off-road sway bar kit and they tell buyers to expect more on-road sway. I put mine in the middle hole to start with, moving toward the rear supposedly adds 1/2" flex per hole, moving forward lessens flex by 1/2"/hole. Frankly, I think my TJ actually handles better on the highway and around town with the Currie AR than it did with the old factory links. I'lm very satisfied with road handling. Off road, I think the Currie AR adds stability on sidehills. I thought the TJ didn't feel as 'tippy' with the AR on it as it did disconnected. And finally, not disconnecting is great!

    Now for the trail report. This was by far the most difficult trail I've did in Colorado. (See list of trails in my profile). This was the trail that exercised everything I had on the old TJ. Lift, 35's, lockers and winch. Red Elephant is listed as a 6 in TrailsOffRoad, but I'd rate it as a solid 7. The fellow that was with me ran is 2-3 years ago and said it's gotten much more difficult. The bottom side of a couple big rocks has been dug out and while I was able to spot him over them, we actually added a couple rocks under them to lift his differential a couple inches. I got a bit sideways and said to heck with it and winched over with little problem.

    I'd say a lift (3"-4"), lockers are required and a winch is desirable. At one point, both of us had the front drivers tire 12"-16" in the air. And the rest of the trail is just slow going, around the Mill Creek loop. We stopped and had lunch at the Empire Hilton. I've posted a half dozen pictures in my Gallery. We headed up the trail at 9:00 am and got out at 3:30, without much dilly dallying. If I remember right, it was about 17.5 miles.
             

  2. The Following 5 Members Say Thanks to alanmikkelsen For This Post:

    Brian (September 23rd, 2018),cnstaco (September 24th, 2018),Java (September 27th, 2018),Jim (September 23rd, 2018),open_circuit (September 23rd, 2018)

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    Default Re: Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report



    I've run Bill Moore lake, but not the rest of those. Looks like a good outing. I may not be up to the tech level to pass everything without winching, based on your report -- 2.5" lift, 33" tires, limited slip rear diff / open front.

    I'd also like to hear how you like that Currie Anti-rock after you've had it a bit longer. I'm interested in getting one, and I'm encouraged by your report that the jeep feels less tippy on side tilt.

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    Default Re: Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report



    It's a good uphill climb! I ran it a couple months ago open-open with 33s...but my old cj may not be all that comparable. Tyler ran it in his TJ with 35s locked in rear and Louis had his 4runner with 32s but did drag over a couple spots. Its certainly not stock friendly except maybe a rubicon...some sliders and protection is also highly recommended.
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    Default Re: Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report



    Love this area, Red Elepphant gave me fits, when we ran it earlier in the year, but was a blast. Last year we had run it taking the wrong turn (think the original route cause the trail matched the pics. That trail damage posted in thier reports). This year we went up the narrow up hill. Bet you had a blast!!!

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    Default Re: Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report



    I ran Red Elephant a bit earlier this year in my JK. Used the rear locker a few times and had to stack a rock here and there (2.5 lift and 35's). Fun trail for sure. Might run it again soon.

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    Default Re: Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report



    Great report! Matt and I ran all three earlier this year and they were all easy, maybe a 4-5 overall and on that day Red Elephant was the easiest of them. It's amazing how quickly use and rain can change the trails, even from one day to the next. Coney Flats is a good example, I did it on 31s years ago and wouldn't try that now with all the dug out spots. I think it's mostly ATVs spinning little tires that do the digging, but I could be wrong. I'm on 33s, 2.5" lift and truetracs f/r.

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    Default Re: Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report



    I ran MSV/Coney with James and some others a month or two ago and thought they were about 4-5. Red Elephant was a whole other ball game this time.

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    Default Re: Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report



    alanmikkelsen previously posted:
    "I ran MSV/Coney with James and some others a month or two ago and thought they were about 4-5."

    I Agree.

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    Default Re: Red Elephant/Mill Creek/Bill Moore/Empire and Tech Report



    Paul previously posted:
    "mostly ATVs spinning little tires that do the digging,"

    I also think the bigger vehicles with larger tired (37s everywhere on jks now) vehicles that are common moved rocks and boulders that used to stay in place. Its a sort of Occum's razor with bigger tires needed to clear the more torn up trails, but then it seems the bigger vehicles move more stuff around making it that much more difficult. Actually, maybe its not the size of the vehicle or tire, but rather with modern suspensions etc, people can drive over stuff a lot faster and maybe that is the issue. Driving at crawl speed would help minimize trail impact and damage. In my old jeep, I rarely get out of 1 or 1.5 low - its too rough, bouncy and will literally break something. But in my Taco I am in 2,3,4 low (with higher gears even), and have tendency to cruise over stuff. Additionally, with extremely capable off dealer lot vehicles - there are a lot more people driving these trails and the more use, the more things seem to get tougher.
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