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Thread: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?

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    Default It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    I just got into the drone game, to me the Mavic 2 Pro hit the sweet spot of fully function, compact, and image quality.

    That said, I know it's a fairly polarizing issue. I'm just curious how you all feel about drone use.

    Now that I'm invested into I'm getting up to speed and seeing just how restrictive things have become, especially in BoCo where I live. I'm more of the mindset of know what I can and can't legally do and trying top be an ambassador for my hobbies, so I don't mind a challenge to help gain some respect for the community.

    I know I'm able to fly from my house, but living in a pretty populous area, I'm not really trying to irritate my neighbors, so for general practice flying I've joined the local AMA chapter with the field out by union. It seems like a great group, and I can take off and land there without worry of breaking any laws.

    I spend a lot of time on USFS and BLM land, so I'll be pretty well off for opportunities to shoot while I'm out camping and fishing, I'm just glad to have something local that I can take advantage of and actually gain the experience I need to make my back country flying worthwhile.

    What is your opinion of drones? What experiences have you had, positive or negative? Do you fly a drone yourself?

    Here's a little short time lapse I did yesterday.

    https://youtu.be/8Kxh3DYcecI

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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    Overall I like drones and think they make a great tool/hobby. I enjoy watching videos taken by drone, but there is a time and place for everything. Sadly, as with many things, a relative few people have ruined it for the many. Flying in crowded commercial airspace, crash landing in big crowds of people, peeping through bathroom windows etc... are all examples of serious misuse and I understand why people see this and want the government to restrict the activity.
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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    Spieg previously posted:
    "Flying in crowded commercial airspace, crash landing in big crowds of people, peeping through bathroom windows etc... are all examples of serious misuse and I understand why people see this and want the government to restrict the activity."

    There are a lot of valid wildlife concerns as well. Heck, I can't even watch drone videos over the speakers because that frequency freaks my dog out.

    Like most things that are fun, a few bad apples can ruin a good thing for the majority.

    There is something in Longmont's municipal code, but I have yet been able to find the actual section, but I have plenty of time.

    My code to the gate is on its way, so I can let myself in, which I am really fond of. I am sure the guys there know all about the local regulations, so I can learn from them.

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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    They can get some cool video!

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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    Great for targeting and shooting bad guys. But seriously, drones have their place in both the work world and the entertainment world. They are a great way to document a group event where everyone knows they will be flown and has agreed.

    They are invasive to privacy and that is the issue of course. What is entertainment to you is invading my privacy. Even out there in BLM/NF territory. You are flying around the lake that is your camp ground area. But in the process you fly over someone elses campsite.

    In town of course a host of other concerns which you seem to be addressing on your own. And are being a responsible drone owner. It is the kid down the block that has not taken the time or cared about the legal issues that is going to cause all of those that own heartache.

    Drones are here to stay (at least for the near future). They will improve more and more.

    On the other hand after you have about 50 hours of video saved, who's going to watch it again. Drone video is much like vacation video. No one really wants to come over and see 30 to 60 minutes of aerial flying. They want to just see a 30 second hit of themselves and they are done watching.

    On the other hand drones for commercial work are becoming a wonderful tool. I work with drones on a weekly basis. Not flying them but supporting the logistics of selling and training them to governments around the world. And no I'm not talking about those big killer ones. I'm talking about hand launched short to medium range (15-50 miles) and short endurance (up to 4 hours). All from a hand launched 3-4 pound drone. I support border patrols from 8 different countries, I support oil companies which use them for pipeline inspection as well as security and others. And yes the military have them too. And no none of my drones are armed.

    From a commercial aspect, there is a host of things where here in Colorado they are of great value. For the rancher that open ranges his/her herds seeking them out with a drone can save time money and a lot of labor. Running fence lines, irrigation lines and such. Search and rescue is another big area where drones can be of value.

    But of course I'm getting off your topic of personal drone use. The key word here is personal and how you keep it from becoming public is what the current laws are about. I think there is lots of open space around that you can use for practice, some is specified, some you just need to go ask for permission. In the cities, it becomes tougher, because even if it is over your own home, you can point your camera out. Follow the rules and you are golden, don't and you will probably find at least one of your neighbors that will file a complaint.
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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    Eagle6 previously posted:
    "But of course I'm getting off your topic of personal drone use."

    I see why you'd say that, but that is actually fascinating to me to hear your perspective and experience. Thank you for weighing in.

    Can I ask you about how you draw the line between being in public and maintaining privacy? I realize that's going to sound like a much more loaded question than I'm intending, and for me, the answer is fairly common sense, but I'm hoping to get your viewpoint, because it could be the same, or it could be different, and I find a lot of value in that, we all have different experiences, values, and expectations, you may also know more legally than I do, actually... you likely do.

    I want to enjoy myself, but I do also value not negatively impacting the enjoyment of others and am willing to suspend my enjoyment to that end. That's not to say I'm an angel and have never irritated anyone, I am not quite that naive.

    I'll pose a situation, drawing on your example:

    I fly around the lake, and I happen to notice you, if I stopped and (obviously and cautiously) approached you, and explained what I'm doing, my intentions, and gave a window of how long I wanted to do so, as well as at least offering to delete that first file, would that make a difference for you?

    How about if I don't see you, you're never in frame, and I'm still only briefly in the air. Have I still impacted your privacy, and what is your expectation of privacy on public land?

    Again, that sounds far more loaded than I intend it to be, I'm genuinely curious.

    I would prefer to work out how to be responsible and respectful ahead of time, so that in practice I'm not a nuisance, while still attempting to enjoy myself.


    Regarding what would I do with all that unused video, I've not worked that out, I had a brief foray into gopros around the hero 2 timeframe and what I found out is that editing video is a pain in the butt. So, my videoing will likely be fairly limited, and I will really only use what I splice together the first time to show to friends and family, and review myself as I have an awful memory. I've not personally gotten to the point of deleting media intentionally (my experience is primarily photography) and I actually have found more value in that, popping into a folder from 5 or even 10 years ago to take a stroll down memory lane. I have photos of my Nieces when they were babies, and videos of my deceased grandmothers and pets. I might dig out a video of my father's mother singing happy birthday for his birthday or something like that. What I'll do with or need anything I take from a sUAS for at this point, I can't even imagine. Say I'm out in the middle of nowhere and get a lot of images of a cirque or lake, and there's a landslide, or a dam brakes at a reservoir not long after... I could offer up that footage to the appropriate agency, I might have a view of something they didn't have from their own surveys. That's reaching, but not impossible.

    More than likely, I'll do nothing with it other than browse it for my own amusement.

    Thanks for humoring my inane questions, I do appreciate it.

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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    they are ubiquitous now. and I agree the footage can get dull on it's own, but as a component they are outstanding and unique. The new Jack Ryan series has a storyline about a drone pilot in Nevada who takes out targets in the middle east and is conflicted about it. That is how China will invade us, millions of drones piloted from the mainland...

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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    Paul previously posted:
    "millions of drones piloted from the mainland..."

    Off-topic but I understand the "NEW THING" in military drone tech involves AI (autonomous - self guided drones) so they are not as vulnerable to anti-drone tech (signal disruption or high-jacking). And this would also alleviate some of the pilot guilt associated with killing by remote control.
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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    JGRubicon previously posted:
    "I see why you'd say that, but that is actually fascinating to me to hear your perspective and experience. Thank you for weighing in.

    Can I ask you about how you draw the line between being in public and maintaining privacy? I realize that's going to sound like a much more loaded question than I'm intending, and for me, the answer is fairly common sense, but I'm hoping to get your viewpoint, because it could be the same, or it could be different, and I find a lot of value in that, we all have different experiences, values, and expectations, you may also know more legally than I do, actually... you likely do.

    I want to enjoy myself, but I do also value not negatively impacting the enjoyment of others and am willing to suspend my enjoyment to that end. That's not to say I'm an angel and have never irritated anyone, I am not quite that naive.

    I'll pose a situation, drawing on your example:

    I fly around the lake, and I happen to notice you, if I stopped and (obviously and cautiously) approached you, and explained what I'm doing, my intentions, and gave a window of how long I wanted to do so, as well as at least offering to delete that first file, would that make a difference for you?

    How about if I don't see you, you're never in frame, and I'm still only briefly in the air. Have I still impacted your privacy, and what is your expectation of privacy on public land?

    Again, that sounds far more loaded than I intend it to be, I'm genuinely curious.

    I would prefer to work out how to be responsible and respectful ahead of time, so that in practice I'm not a nuisance, while still attempting to enjoy myself."

    OK let's start here. If you or I are on public land and doing legal things including flying the drone, what is my expectation of privacy? Personally, none if it is a fly by. Just like if you were taking pictures or a dashcam video. I'm in public and people take video and pictures. However, if your flyby stops and obviously take time to intentionally video my actions, although not illegal, is probably going to irritate me some as even though I'm in a public place, the intent of being in a secluded area is my expectation of some privacy, although not a legal expectation.

    Essentially, in the United States the general rule is that anyone may take photographs including video of whatever they want when they are in a public place or where they have permission to take photographs. That is absent any legal prohibitions such as a statute or ordinance. So if you are flying in a public space ensure that you know if there are any restrictions for drone flights and videos. Private property is another matter and this may include paid entrance to public lands so again you have to check.

    So think about a public beach and flying the drone out over the water but obviously filming the beach. Most are not going to care, some might but it is legal. I would not get into an argument with someone over it even if you are legally correct. But if you are obviously stalking a single individual or are drowning creepy taking videos of young ladies or such, you might find that someone will call the police on you not for public flight, and they might find other statutes that you have violated unknowingly. It's like taking upskirt photos in public, it is legal on the photographing in public rules, but violates other areas of the legal code.

    There has to be a lot of common sense on your part as well. I mean do I want to be part of your home video collection or put on the internet if I'm out camping with my wife on the far side of the lake in a seclude but public area? Probably not. Is it legal for you to do so, by law yes. Can a confrontation occur? of course. If you capture something illegal are you still legal? yes. Is there going to be a confrontation? well if they are doing something illegal, do you think they care if they confront you?

    There are a bunch of pretty good papers out there having to do with the rights of photographers. Simple internet search would help you there.

    Now in your neighborhood. Every ones property is private. So the minute your camera pans across their property, you have probably violated the law, unintentionally or otherwise. So I would restrict flying it in your neighborhood to your own driveway and only limited height. Remember corner lots and dirt fields are not necessarily public property. City owned lots are not necessarily public property. And it is up to you to know where you are flying.

    Don't forget that if your drone weighs more than 8.8 ounces it is required to be registered. Registration is $5 for a Part 107 registration. Go here if you your drone weighs more than 8.8 oz.

    https://faadronezone.faa.gov/#/

    General rules for recreational flying:
    - Keep below 400 feet AGL
    - Your drone must be within visual sight at all times. If you can't see it, you are breaking the law.
    - Never fly near other aircraft or airfields/airports/helo landing sites.
    - Don't fly over top of people.
    - Don't fly if you have been drinking.
    - Don't fly around emergency response units (fire, police, military, etc.), they also have drones or real aircraft and have priority for airspace.


    JGRubicon previously posted:
    "Regarding what would I do with all that unused video, I've not worked that out, I had a brief foray into gopros around the hero 2 timeframe and what I found out is that editing video is a pain in the butt. So, my videoing will likely be fairly limited, and I will really only use what I splice together the first time to show to friends and family, and review myself as I have an awful memory. I've not personally gotten to the point of deleting media intentionally (my experience is primarily photography) and I actually have found more value in that, popping into a folder from 5 or even 10 years ago to take a stroll down memory lane. I have photos of my Nieces when they were babies, and videos of my deceased grandmothers and pets. I might dig out a video of my father's mother singing happy birthday for his birthday or something like that. What I'll do with or need anything I take from a sUAS for at this point, I can't even imagine. Say I'm out in the middle of nowhere and get a lot of images of a cirque or lake, and there's a landslide, or a dam brakes at a reservoir not long after... I could offer up that footage to the appropriate agency, I might have a view of something they didn't have from their own surveys. That's reaching, but not impossible.

    More than likely, I'll do nothing with it other than browse it for my own amusement.

    Thanks for humoring my inane questions, I do appreciate it."

    I'm not suggesting not getting into this, like I said public space is public space. Posting it on the internet is also not a violation of photography taken in public. It's just like that goPro or a dashcam. How much do you archive vice record over. My dashcam runs when I'm on the trail because I switch it on. When I get home, if I have something interesting to share, I'll throw it out there. I don't have hours and hours of video on YouTube or some place else because that is not my thing others do. My dashcam is set to overwrite itself also, because again I don't really intend to keep it unless it is exceptional for some reason or other. So don't get me wrong, video is a great medium for recording events and may be of value if the situation is right (don't mean $$$).

    Not sure I answered your questions, so take this for what it is worth, one man's opinion.
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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    So looking up the specs on the Mavic 2 I see that it weights 907 grams (1+ lbs). So you definitely need to register it.

    I also see that it has a range of 4 miles (8000m Transmission Distance). My caution here is I doubt you can actually see it at that range, so watch violating the line of site rule.
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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    Paul previously posted:
    "they are ubiquitous now. and I agree the footage can get dull on it's own, but as a component they are outstanding and unique. The new Jack Ryan series has a storyline about a drone pilot in Nevada who takes out targets in the middle east and is conflicted about it. That is how China will invade us, millions of drones piloted from the mainland..."


    You can't invade with drones. You can violate airspace, you can use them as unmanned weapons delivery systems, you can use them to deliver other things.

    But you can't invade. To invade you have to enter a country or region so as to subjugate or occupy it. You can do neither with just drones. However, it might be the first step to an invasion by and occupying force.
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    Spieg previously posted:
    "Off-topic but I understand the "NEW THING" in military drone tech involves AI (autonomous - self guided drones) so they are not as vulnerable to anti-drone tech (signal disruption or high-jacking). And this would also alleviate some of the pilot guilt associated with killing by remote control."

    Anti-drone technology is not about AI. AI provide a smart movement or targeting capability.

    Military drones use stealth technology in manufacturing of their airframe (for larger drones). They use encrypted communications, multichannel communications and such to prevent signal disruption.

    Pilot guilt well we Infantry types don't care to much about that. Firing a remote platform vice firing a rifle, I'd take the remote platform every day. Our artillery guys don't have remorse or using indirect fire. They can't even see or know if they are hitting the target.

    Don't fall all over the hype of movies or TV that are playing this up. Pilots have been killing the enemy since the first aircraft dropped a bomb on a target. We fire missiles every day without them seeing the target. They follow a beam or ride a GPS signal to impact. Don't fall for the hype that our Air Force Officers and Enlisted that are part of the drone programs are that weak kneed and remorseful.
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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    China is developing manned drones. Have you noticed the timing, we're developing those robot dogs at the same time the Purina challenge started? The government is training the real dogs to pilot the robot dogs to snatch the china drones from the air just like the frisbees over the pool. #WOKE #realmatrix #thenthedogstakeover

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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    Paul, lol. You went real deep there.

    David, I'm already registered with the FAA, and it was labeled before it ever took off. I really think we're on the same page, and I certainly appreciate you elaborating you views for me.

    Rest assured, you will not see me on the news for lewd behavior, that's not my kind of sport. I am also not looking to get my ass kicked, and I grew up in a time when that was a much more reasonable possibility.

    As for line of sight, I took it out over a cornfield to about 1000' and I could definitely see it, but at that point it's getting quite difficult, one of the guys actually asked me where it was, and I was able to sight him into it. I have no reason to push that boundary at this time. For me, the 4 mile transmission range means that I should be able to fly it to MY LIMIT without reaching its limit even with interference. I'm not really wanting to search for a drone in the middle of nowhere at the limits of my sight, which really, is a good enough reason for me to plan shots so that I'm near the path, plus, then I'm less likely to be in that shot.

    By all means, keep the intel flowing though, the more people see it, the better.

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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    Eagle6 previously posted:
    "Anti-drone technology is not about AI. AI provide a smart movement or targeting capability."

    I think you misunderstand my point. AI is not Anti-Drone tech, AI is to defeat the anti-drone tech. Drone takes off with a coordinate destination. Flies to that location and uses smart targeting to kill whatever was predefined as target (could be; anything that moves, a gun emplacement, building, bunker, whatever...). No communication required between takeoff and landing.

    Eagle6 previously posted:
    "Military drones use stealth technology in manufacturing of their airframe (for larger drones). They use encrypted communications, multichannel communications and such to prevent signal disruption."

    Any electronic communication is subject to interference. Don't believe anyone who tells you encryption is foolproof.

    Eagle6 previously posted:
    "Pilot guilt well we Infantry types don't care to much about that. Firing a remote platform vice firing a rifle, I'd take the remote platform every day. Our artillery guys don't have remorse or using indirect fire. They can't even see or know if they are hitting the target.

    Don't fall all over the hype of movies or TV that are playing this up. Pilots have been killing the enemy since the first aircraft dropped a bomb on a target. We fire missiles every day without them seeing the target. They follow a beam or ride a GPS signal to impact. Don't fall for the hype that our Air Force Officers and Enlisted that are part of the drone programs are that weak kneed and remorseful."

    I'm certainly no expert on the subject. Only know that a coworker of mine has 2 daughters in Las Vegas flying drones daily over Afghanistan and one is currently trying to get transferred out because it's messing her head too much. The other talking to a therapist weekly. Maybe things are a little different for infantry or pilots who at least have some skin in the game.
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    You can take pictures all you want in a public space. That's why it's called "public" and not "private" property. You may not like it, but it's legal to walk down the street and take pictures of anyone. The same goes for aerial platforms.

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    Spieg previously posted:
    "I think you misunderstand my point. AI is not Anti-Drone tech, AI is to defeat the anti-drone tech. Drone takes off with a coordinate destination. Flies to that location and uses smart targeting to kill whatever was predefined as target (could be; anything that moves, a gun emplacement, building, bunker, whatever...). No communication required between takeoff and landing.

    Any electronic communication is subject to interference. Don't believe anyone who tells you encryption is foolproof."

    Oh I knew exactly what you meant. We call it autonomous surveillance and targeting. I currently have over 400 drones around the world that I support logistically. I have training crews that train both operations and maintenance to US and foreign government personnel. You would be surprised at what is out there. And you are correct, no encryption is foolproof. But there are several things that military drones have that most commercial don't. 1) Encryption, 2) Frequency Hopping, 3) Low Probability of Detect/Intercept frequency ranges, 4) Multiple band and multiple radios (one for flight, one for video, one for targeting and one for data to weapons systems). I deal with much smaller systems and none of mine carry weapons to engage the target. I can however lase a target and direct either aircraft or munitions to the target. But most of my stuff is for surveillance and target acquisition and not engagement.


    Spieg previously posted:
    "I'm certainly no expert on the subject. Only know that a coworker of mine has 2 daughters in Las Vegas flying drones daily over Afghanistan and one is currently trying to get transferred out because it's messing her head too much. The other talking to a therapist weekly. Maybe things are a little different for infantry or pilots who at least have some skin in the game."

    Don't know and I'm sorry to hear that any troop is having problems. Because of the size of my platforms, most of my pilots are Infantry or Special Operations.
    ___________
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    Default Re: It's 2018 - How do you feel about drones now?



    Max previously posted:
    "You can take pictures all you want in a public space. That's why it's called "public" and not "private" property. You may not like it, but it's legal to walk down the street and take pictures of anyone. The same goes for aerial platforms."

    Tell that to photographers walking down the street taking pictures of certain gov buildings after their arrest.

    I agree with you Max its legal, but the above has happened anyway. Just follow some of the professional photog sites.
    ___________
    Tom
    KE0WTC

    Life is just better in 4-Low!

    http://crosman.org

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