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Thread: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado

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    Default Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Hey everyone,

    As all who have been out with me know this is all pretty new to me. I'm interested in learning about all the different aspects of four wheel driving even though I'm still not ready to do the work myself I feel like it's good to know.


    So lockers have been brought up a lot vs open diff I'm starting to grasp what it all means and was curious what my truck has, what axles I have and what gears. So I started to try and look some of this up I found this site:
    http://www.sierragear.com/gm-rpo-axl...ation-codes-3/

    Which says refer to my “Service Parts Identification” here it is:

    So G80 refers to:
    G80 Not Open Diff – Positraction / Limited Slip / Typ. Gov-Lock

    So then I'm like what the hell does that mean and I found some forum that says:
    "It's all of the above. The G80 used in GM brand trucks combines the clutch plates of a traditional Limited Slip differential with the positive engagement of the traditional mechanical locker.

    It does this by using a mechanical flyweight and a governor inside the differential, hence the "Gov Lok.""

    Wow, ok what? So it's basically limited slip with a sometimes engaging locker? If that's the case I would assume it's not as good because it's automatic rather than being able to hit a switch when you want it to engage and not to? I wonder if it can be altered to add a switch?


    I know that's a lot of information and questions appreciate any help and insight. Depending on the answers my next questions might be what options do I have for adding lockers with my existing diffs and axles followed by would lockers that could work with my current setup work with an axle I may add down the road?

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    I also found the code for the rear axle but don't see anything for front, supposed to be F, G, H codes my F codes are
    FE9 : CERTIFICATION, EMISSION, FEDERAL
    FF6 : ARM, LH, TORSION BAR SPRING ADJ (E)
    FF7 : ARM, RH, TORSION BAR SPRING ADJ (F)

    Doesn't seem helpful.
    GU6 though is Axle Rear 3.42

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Starting with the basics - a 'locker' is a traction improvement device that goes inside your differential. I am assuming your truck does not have a traction control system. A true locker will 'lock' the passenger and driver side axles/wheels together so that even when only one of them has traction, it will continue to spin and hopefully move the vehicle forward. An open diff will transfer power mostly to the side that has less resistance, and thus when only one of the tires has traction, its the no traction, spinning (and boulder throwing in your case from sat) wheel that gets all the power. An LSD (limited-slip differential) fall in the middle they traditionally have a set of friction disks (clutches) that help bind the two sides together, but also allows for some slip (how 'tight' or bound these units can vary quite a bit with design and over time they loose effectiveness as the clutch disks wear - just like a transmission clutch). Some newer ones are using a more gear type system that allows slip (auburn and no-slip style I believe). Not familiar with the governor activated aspect - but it sounds to me like its still an LSD as its using some sort of mechanical flyweight that I assume activates based on the two side spinning at diiferent speeds. From watching your rig...it looks like the rear LSD is either very weak (essentially open) or its not activating properly. A couple tips for driving an LSD - sometimes it helps to have one foot on the brake a bit to help bind the free spinning side and easy gas with the other foot (much easier with auto which I assume you have).

    Everyone will have their opinion - here is mine: Get an aftermarket locker in the rear so you can push it over stuff. Don't mess with the front unless you are swapping solid axle (SAS). Some will probably say you really need to go SAS - I'd say run it till you break it. You might not break it. The one catch...gearing: If you are thinking of going to lower gears, you want to do that when you install the locker for both cost savings as well as lockers are designed for a range of gear ratios - changing the gears after you install the locker could risk having to replace the locker....a little research will get you that info so you can take it small bites if needed. If you do change the gearing, you will have to do it front and rear - and it might not be worth spending money on the front IFS...In general, gearing is not as critical for automatics as the torque converter really helps create some functional crawl even with higher gears.

    One last thing - if you go the full locker route, there are two types: 1) automatic and 2) selectable. I much prefer spending the extra money for selectable - less for functionality off road and more for driving manners on road. The are quite a lot of people who drive automatic (lunch-box, detroit, EZ) lockers on the road and it works for them. Decide what you like. If it were me...and you are happy with the gearing in your truck for most all the driving you do...then I would just get a selectable locker for the rear and see how far that will take you.
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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    This article is a good read when considering options or the pros and cons of your locker or limited slip:

    www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/154-0910-jeep-locker-overview/

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    The G80 rear diff is a type of limited slip that locks the rear axles when there is 100rpm difference between the two side when operating at slow speeds. The 100rpm difference allows for turning corners so it operates more smoothly than a traditional locker when turning. It acts like an open diff at speeds above 25mph. This link will give you a good idea how it works as well as show you pictures of the inside. http://www.silveradosierra.com/trans...ial-t2607.html I would not replace this with a elocker or air locker, as it provides the same basic function without the need for a switch. Torsion bar front suspension is pretty old school but was very common and is very reliable, My old Durango had a similar set up. Instead of coil springs or leaf springs in the front you have a spring steel bar that twists which provides the spring support. Unless you're building a rock crawler your 8.6 rear axle should be plenty sufficient for most off-road purposes. There might be an option for a front locker, but seeing as you have an aluminum front differential housing and IFS (independent front suspension) I doubt there will be much. The aluminum front diff saves weight but is a bit more fragile than a steel solid axle, therefore a locker is often not an option. You probably won't need a front locker unless you are doing things beyond the capability of the truck. The 3.42 axle ration is very common and should be ok for most wheeling unless you go to really big tires, beyond 33". Now, the 5.3 v8 has plenty of goodies available to give it more go go power. I am currently rebuilding a 5.3 from an 02 suburban for a yet undecided project, was going in my 69 el camino but I sold it when I moved. Might end up getting an older jeep and building it. What do you want out of your truck? more power? more traction? more suspension travel? If you have an idea we can help figure out how to go about it.

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Thank you both for all the information, very helpful. I will dig in deeper with more research over the next week

    As for gearing I really couldn't say if I think what I have would do or not from plain ignorance, I guess I would need to research on what all will be affected, I'll do that first then decide about the lockers.

    I tend to agree about the axle swap from the perspective of it will be damn expensive. I'm not afraid of throwing money at my rig but I also have a family to feed

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Terrafied previously posted:
    "I would not replace this with a elocker or air locker, as it provides the same basic function without the need for a switch"

    I would generally agree...it sounds like it should be functional traction device. But something isn't working as it should in the rear. From visual experience having watched Scott run his rig on two runs...that rear just doesn't have any traction aid - certainly not locking at all, and it doesn't appear to give any help as an LSD either. I've watched him on a few different spots at both Moab Hill and Hackett...nothing but one side tire spin and no forward movement at all. Wondering if the 100 rpm difference is too much...the locker might not be activating until he has a lot of throttle and creates the difference. With 37s, that might be too much tire spin at the gear ratios he is at. Thinking/calculating aloud here - but that would be a difference of about 1.7 rotations per second...which seems like a lot for crawling up rocks. Quick calculation suggests if his 37" tire is rotating 1.67 times per second that would be about 22.1mph (assuming the other tire is not spinning at all). Maybe that is why it only works when he sends it! He needs something that will lock-up with much less difference between the two sides - of course then it becomes an issue when cornering (like a detroit)...feel free to check my math...

    edit - even with what I assume to be closer to stock size tires (32"): the 1.67 rotations per second stays the same and then the speed would still be around 19mph. Don't see how that is functional at all...
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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Hmm, it sounds like its not really working as it should, maybe the tires size is throwing it off or its just not working. You do have to get that slipping wheel spinning pretty quick to engage the locking mechanism. They used the G80 in the Z71 packages and it usually works pretty good, Eaton makes it I believe. You do have to get those tires moving and the engagement can be pretty abrupt. With larger tires it can actually be such a forceful engagement it can break the rear end. This is a little video of how it works.

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    My ZR2 Blazer had a G80 diff. I don't recall it functioning as a LS at all, but when one tire would spin, it would lock up as good as a spool.
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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Sounds like Scott needs to visit a snow or gravel covered "test area" to get one rear wheel really spinning to see if any lockup can happen.

    I'll simply toss in - as for having both (front/rear) selectables - The front only gets enabled about 10% of the times where rear is already enabled. It is not used/needed too often. I should add - snow bashing runs aside. My BFG KM's are not good in snow (so I don't often go) but on snow runs it's typically 100% front & rear.

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Side bar: Jim do you ever think about having them siped? I will say the km2s seen a bit better than the originals in snow...but still not stellar.
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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    `haven't considered it as snow runs are not high on my radar (I just say 'it's because of the tires' LOL).

    I do have one set of chains - that I've used on the rears but need to get out in snow and try'm on the fronts.

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Wow great info terrafied thanks so much. That was my super limited understanding as well but when I said anything like that everyone made it seem like there was no way possible and I just didn't know enough about it to elaborate without sounding like an idiot haha. My understanding too was Eaton made them.

    So I guess i need to find out if it works at all (I bought this truck last year) then find out if the 37s are limiting it from working or what. I would say I've been more light on the gas on the two runs when I'm crawling I wonder if that has anything to do with it too. I'll need to figure out the best way to properly test functionality I guess too, is field test like Jim mentioned the only way or can it be inspected mechanically I wonder, I would need help with both scenarios for sure.

    Luckily I know a mechanic who knows his **** very well I can run this by him and see what he says, the only problem is his limited time.

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    scottt- the biggest limit you have is the axles them selves. you will be seeing trail repairs with the front if you lock it. that is if one can even be found for the front.
    The rear is not know for its strength but is reliable to a point. this will require time and experiance to keep it together.
    the eton E locker was built for the chevy stuff so it should be available.

    now with the tires you have and gears if they have not been changed you will want to consider doing gears this will bring back the power the truck once had and get the tires to spin a bit easier.
    this can and does lead to damage-Dave is a good example- things go bang.


    you are doing very well with what you have. you have sown each run that you will take direction and help.
    as well you are willing to put some foot to but so to speak.
    with time you will learn where to put them big tires and where they really are in relation to what ever is in front of you.

    keep reading and ask questions your surrounded by good people here.

    was good to see you and very nice wheel stand you did!
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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    So the more I read about the G80 for off roading the more people are saying it's a ticking time-bomb for the 10-bolt especially with any type of over-sized tires. Guess it's nickname in the off roading community is gov-bomb. A lot of guys just weld it up until they can replace it. I think i might want to look at replacing it add some lockers sooner rather than later. The other thing I'm thinking is maybe have my mechanic service it and change the gear oil then wait and see if it explodes on the trail lol.

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Yup the GM half ton stiff leaves much to be desired.

    If your going to do it spend it once.
    Go the Eton e-locker.

    The 10 bolt axle is weak by nature.
    Hell the Toyota 8" is stronger!
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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    I am guessing its the need to have as much differential wheel spin (100rpm) to get it to lock that is causing some problems. I would think that instant locking with that kind of wheel spin on large tires is going to cause some serious stress and shock on something...David's front axles on sat was good example of instant loading causing stuff to explode. On the other hand...I am a big fan of don't replace stuff that is not broken...let it break first as it might not acutally break, but I wouldn't like driving it with as much throttle that is needed to get it to lock. I would suggest considering a different locker that would engage and much slower crawl speeds (its not my money so i can easily suggest it) which would I think help it crawl over the obstacles around here a lot better...and with it engaged at such slow speeds it will be much less likely to explode something and can keep using the same axle. Just my two cents...which is pretty cheap compared to new locker. Good locker, easy on the throttle, you can go a lot of places and not break stuff.
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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "I am guessing its the need to have as much differential wheel spin (100rpm) to get it to lock that is causing some problems. I would think that instant locking with that kind of wheel spin on large tires is going to cause some serious stress and shock on something"

    Yeah I think that's the problem with it, interesting though it will not engage above 25mph (most likely based on stock wheel size) according to what I read



    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "On the other hand...I am a big fan of don't replace stuff that is not broken...let it break first as it might not acutally break"

    I think it's a pretty good guideline but... question.. should I be prepared if it does explode so I can still get home? What would I need to keep on hand? A whole new diff? or just rely on 2WD to get home? Keeping in mind I am not mechanically inclined at all and would need to rely on the generosity of kind folks time out there (and obviously I would be willing to donate $ for services rendered) but if I can be more prepared and should be I would want to try and be.


    FINOCJ previously posted:
    "I would suggest considering a different locker that would engage and much slower crawl speeds (its not my money so i can easily suggest it) which would I think help it crawl over the obstacles around here a lot better"

    like eaton e-locker dieseldoc suggested or did you mean something completely different than that?

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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    Scott.
    This would be a very time intensive repair.
    Even with the replacement diff, most likely it will blow and destroy bearings, this will lead to resetting the gears set as side bearing will need to come off the carrier(diff)
    So it's tough to say what you should have with you.

    Parts to carry:
    Both left and right shafts
    Bother front and rear.
    Rear axle carrier(diff)
    Side bearings for rear diff.
    Oil 2 qts of the oil needed for the diff.
    RTV sealant for the diff pan.

    So you will want a tool box in the bed of the truck.
    This will give you room for parts tools compressor can go in there as well.

    Spair tire is yet another issue.
    I don't remember if you have one or not but it's become standard for many to run with out one at all.....
    Spair carrier for you would he up in the bed.
    I will get some pics of Moose(my roomate) truck how his is done.

    Your stepping into a expensive field here Scott.
    It's tough to say build what you have or not.
    You could pick up some 3/4 ton or full 1ton axles and then put them in the truck.
    But your talking 12k at the low end for the work and parts.

    Don't get me wrong the Chev is a nice truck rides well and such but they are not built for what we are doing with them.
    Thus why you see SAS (solid axle swapped) trucks out there.
    ___________
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    Default Re: Lockers/diff/axle etc my Silverado



    thanks for the info again

    there is a spare but it's not a 37, when I replace the tires (I think although these are not worn down they are older so the replacement will come sooner than I probably like) I would certainly buy 5 not 4 like the previous owner

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