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Thread: SAE Baja Buggy build

  1. #21
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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    So if you were me, just making brackets and tube doors and such, would you Normalize (thanks for the new term) or quench?

  2. #22
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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    Paul previously posted:
    "So if you were me, just making brackets and tube doors and such, would you Normalize (thanks for the new term) or quench?"

    Brackets and Tube doors aren't going to be subject to any stress or forces or at least to the same degree as suspension components or a chassis. The heat treatment won't have an effect on your doors so it's really just how impatient you are being that day and how long you want to wait for them too cool. Now if you were say making control arms I would suggest normalize over quench. Reason being is quench locks in stronger but more brittle grains where as normalizing will allow for good strength and ductility.

    Also if you were to really Normalize or Quench you would be doing it in a furnace and heating up the entire part uniformly. Its really more important for thicker plate or pipe then thin tubing.
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    Paul (March 29th, 2018)

  4. #23
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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    Today we finished all the primary members and for the most part the frame other than the back which is dependent upon engine and transaxle mounting which we will tackle next weekend.

    Frame
    Last week we got the base and roll hoop welded up this week we were able to finish all the primary members with a little bit of headache. The main roll bars went on with little to no trouble but the rest of the parts became a pain. Reason being was that we were no longer notching square angles and were also meeting multiple pipes together. Another problem we had was the side roll bars when modeled on SolidWorks were one length and because of the frame being an inch or two longer than planned the side bars were a tad to short so we had to re-bend and cut which isn't the end of the work but still frustrating. I would suggest of anyone planning on doing any sort of notching cut everything 2-4" longer than expected. Another problem we were having was for the roll hoop brace but that was just due to us over thinking everything and being timid from making mistakes. The main roll bars, side roll bars and roll hoop brace can be seen in Figure 1. One of the rules pertaining to the side roll bars is that the drives elbows can not be sticking out past them. In Figure 2 you can see Mike taking a seat seeing if we should pass.


    Figure 1: Main roll bars, side roll bars and roll hoop brace mounted to the frame.


    Figure 2: Making sure the side roll bars are up to code.

    We also got the front suspension mounting bar, main roll bar brace and 5 point harness mounting finished as well. The front suspension mounting bar was by far the hardest piece to notch out of everything we've done and are probably going to do. In Figure 3 you can see the mounting from a side view of the buggy and in Figure 4 you can see a view from the front of the buggy. Figure 3 doesn't show the angle terrible well but the nose goes down 10o from the base of the buggy. Figure 4 shows the angle that the bar also had to rotate in the opposing axis. So for this piece we ending up notching the piece in the direction shown in figure 3 and cleaned up the edges then gave it some hammer love so it'd get in place. One of the biggest things I think we should have done with this is get all the notching and angles cut and adjusted before we welded up the side roll bars but such is life. This is a learning experience and I can say without a doubt we are learning a lot.



    Figure 3: Side view of suspension mounting bar.


    Figure 4: From the front looking to the back of the buggy of the suspension mounting bar.

    After the suspension mounting bars we just had to finish the main roll bar braces and harness mounting. These were relatively easier and quicker considering we didn't have to worry about mattering 4 pipes at multiple angles. The fruits of our labors for this week can be seen in Figure 5 and 6. All we have left is the rear of the buggy which I mentioned at the beginning of this post will be completed this upcoming weekend after some mock ups of the powertrain.


    Figure 5: Driver side view of the frame


    Figure 6: Passenger side view of the frame.

    Suspension
    One of the suspension members has been working on mounting brackets and after a few attempts got them nailed down (forgot to get pictures). Hopefully with the brackets figured out we will be able to dive into making all of the suspension arms next weekend and get a start on all of those components. I believed I've mentioned earlier that the front will be a double wish bone and the rear will be a trailing arm system. With some luck and skill we should be able to knock the arms out of the park considering out suspension team has spent a lot of time making them to meet our needs exactly.
    ___________
    1990 Jeep Comanche

  5. #24
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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    Got a big shipment of parts this week so we can finally starting bolting everything up.

    Frame

    This weeks goal was the get the transaxle and motor mounted. Which we got done but may have ran into some troubles being a tad hasty with putting it together but it's nothing we can't make some quick changes for. The main trouble is with the transaxle mount. One of the team members made a drawing and was able to cut some brackets out in the CNC machine but didn't think about the bolts or axle shafts when making it. But like I said it's not the end of the world and it's honestly a mistake anyone would have made. The mounts can be seen in Figure 1 and the transaxle mounted can be seen in Figure 2. Sorry about the poor photos but if you look at figure 1 you can see the rear bolt hole is almost inline with the rear frame bar which it is. This makes getting the bolt in and out a little bit of a hassle but nothing to difficult. The main problem is the axle shaft. In Figure 2 you can seen the axle mounting shaft is very close the the rear bar. We mounted an axle on it had enough room to fit but the problem is with the suspension arm mounting. It is very possible that axle will impede on them and thus breaking something. We weren't able to get any suspension components done today but it ends up being in the way we can just adjust the mounting to be closer to the driver and that will solve the problem. One we have the transaxle were we want it we will throw in some gussets for good measure.


    Figure 1: Transaxle mounts


    Figure 2: Transaxle mounted.

    With mounting both of these parts the spacing was pretty critical since we are running a CV drivetrain and we want the belt at rest to have certain amount of tension at rest. We were able to achieve this with a lot of ratchet straps and hillbilly ingenuity see figure 3. One of the rules is the engine has to be with in 15o of tilt when mounted but we just made it 0 for the eaze of building everything. For making the motor mount we added two cross bars to the rear and roll hoop then connected them with a 3/16" plate which was a little wobbly from the engine weight so we just threw an extra bar underneath for support. The other thing we did was mill out the plate with slot for mounting as opposed to drilling single holes. This will allow for adjustment of the belt and being able to say we milled stuff out ourselves for our buggy. The engine mount can be seen in figure 4.


    Figure 3: Getting the engine placement.


    Figure 4: Engine and Transaxle mounted with belt.

    The other part of the frame we worked on today was the front bumper. It didn't turn out as good as I envisioned but as long as it can take a couple taps and keep all of the important stuff safe I guess the looks aren't that big of a deal. It's not completely level or even since I was getting frustrated from making a bunch of them and them not working out, but like I said just needs to keep everything safe even if it looks bad. See Figure 5. One of the guys want's to cut out shark teeth and but them between the top and bottom which would look pretty cool but we need some where for a D-ring to latch on to so we will see. Another guy want's to throw his spare 6" light bar in there just so we can be the guys with light bars on our buggy since someone has to do it.


    Figure 5: Front bumper tacked on. We adjusted it a little bit to be more level than what is shown in this picture

    Suspension and Drivetrain
    I was hoping to get a head start on all the suspension arms but due to complications with a manufacturer we weren't able to get the models we need for certain parts and we had to have one guy spend the weekend making models for everything. Hopefully with all the models made we should be able to get everything done next week. This week at least we were able to get the majority of the brackets made for everything so not it'll just be a matter placing them in the correct position.

    As for drivetrain like stated above we got a lot of parts this week one of them was the primary and secondary clutches for the CV. Due to some mistakes with ordering the secondary the shaft input size was 0.125 to small and wouldn't fit. Luckly last years buggy had the right size secondary so we were able to throw that on for the mock up. One thing that the CV manufacturer didn't include with either clutch was the keys for them. For those of you who don't know CV clutches can either be splined or key ways. Key ways have a solid steel insert that locks the clutch in place so it can turn the shaft. With out the key the crank shaft would spin but not engage the primary clutch thus not moving the buggy. Not including keys was an odd thing but we were able to find some steel at NAPA that worked.
    The only thing left we need to finish the frame is the gas tank which should come in this week.

    Miscellaneous
    One thing we've been putting on the back burner is the siding for the buggy. Last year used sheet metal and 2 years ago these used some plastic sheets. Well this year due to having some people at tech who love carbon fiber and having an extreme surplus of it are going to make us some carbon fiber sidings and seat frame. One of the kids in our group doing undergrad research with carbon fiber is going to make us a carbon fiber seat frame which since carbon fiber is extremely strong will allow for a slim frame that will also be very light weight. Having the carbon fiber siding and seat should look pretty cool as long as it turns out like it should. The plan is to paint the buggy frame orange with black siding it should look pretty slick.
    ___________
    1990 Jeep Comanche

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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    Since it wouldn't let me post the final picture form this week in the last reply I've added it below.

    ___________
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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    Nice! I did the baja sae 2 years ago for my senior project. I welded up the whole frame in my garage. We ended up in the 40s which was great. Cal state fullerton. Had a blast doing it.

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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    Paramud previously posted:
    "Nice! I did the baja sae 2 years ago for my senior project. I welded up the whole frame in my garage. We ended up in the 40s which was great. Cal state fullerton. Had a blast doing it."

    Rock on. We're lucky since we have a good shop with everything we need and more. The team last year was 35 if I remember. They did awful in all the reports and presentions so it's our goal to do better and hopefully place top ten. We have some pretty solid people on the team so if think it's possible.
    ___________
    1990 Jeep Comanche

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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    Frame
    Got rid of the ugly bumper I made. Which wasn't that heart breaking considering it was very ugly, somethings look better in your head then actual reality. New bumper can be seen in Figure 1. I'm not a big fan of the look of this one either but at this point I don't think anything would look good so we will just go with it. I was also able to get the last couple engine bay roll bars in and mounted. We only need the side roll bars and a gas tank mount for the engine but I held off on making those since the main suspension guy wan't there this weekend and I want the shocks mounted up so the roll bars aren't in the way. The Engine bar roll bars can be seen in figure 2.


    Figure 1: New and improved front bumper


    Figure 2: Engine bay roll bars mounted.

    Suspension
    We were finally able to get around to making some suspension components this weekend. One of the team members being what I'd consider a master machinist milled out some stuff for the ball joints(?). The ball joint mounts can be seen in figure 3. We also took the time to make the rear trailing arms. We got 3 of the 4 arms made since one of them requires a notch that's to steep for the notcher we have so ill have to think about how I want to attack it. Suggestions would be appreciated. The trailing arms can be seen in figure 4,5,6. Not that the axle shaft is the incorrect length and we will get a proper length one but this is the only one we had laying around so we used it for modeling purposes.


    Figure 3: Ball joint mounts.

    Sorry for the poor quality photo. As you can see the team mate who made these took the chuck of steel on the right and machined each of the 5 mounts on the right manually in one of the mills at the school.


    Figure 4: Top view of the trailing arm set up.


    Figure 5: Behind view of the trailing arm set up.


    Figure 6: Front view of the trailing arm set up.

    As you can see from the front view in figure 6 we are going to need to add another arm to the front arm. It'll be welded to the top arm and mount on the hub. This was the arm I was talking about skipping for the weekend. One the model it says it needs a 70o notch and our notcher only goes to 60o. I'm either think that I'll try and adjust to be the 60 or take it to the chop saw at the 70 then cut the rest out with the grinder.

    We also have to do the front which could have been done this weekend if it wasn't for needing adjustments so hopefully those will get done this week and we can tackle the front this week as well then it's just a matter of bolting stuff up.

    Competition is coming up soon so we will need to start kicking it in to high gear but we are making good progress and should have a solid buggy.
    ___________
    1990 Jeep Comanche

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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    Got a lot done this week. Wanted more to be done but still content

    Suspension
    Got our suspension done for the most part other than some shock mounts and other little things. Last week we got the rear started and decided to change it some since the rear caster was bothering the main suspension guy. While it's not going to effect anything performance wise it does give the appearance of crappy workmanship and could lead to points off during the competition for the design portion. Due to this and some lack of communication one of the team members decided to cut one of the arms to fix this problem. That is why the rear of the buggy is on jack stands in figure 9.

    One of our biggest problems this week was building the front A-arms. Due to the anti-dive in the front the nose of the buggy is 10o down so to compensate for this we had to angle the ball joints at 20o for the caster and camber. This was extremely difficult for us n00bs to do the compound notch we gave up and just pulled out the dremel. With all the angles and bends the arms ended looking very... interesting. I'm not a fan of the look of them since they aren't completely symmetrical aesthetically but will work like designed. You can see the lower arms in figure 1. The upper and lower arms can be seen in figure 2. In figure 2 you can see the leading arm on the upper arms having the bends facing up while the trailing arm is facing down. It the look bothers me but like I said if it works then so be it. Figure 3 provides a birds eye view of the front arms showing the caster of the front. Figure 4 shows the ball joint cup welded up.


    Figure 1: Front lower A-arms.


    Figure 2: Upper and Lower A-arms.


    Figure 3: Front A-arms (sorry for the vertical picture).


    Figure 4: Ball joint cup welded up.

    We were also able to get the rear shocks mounted up so the buggy can sit under it's own power now. The shocks were are using are progressive Foxes with the rears being at 200 psi and fronts being at 150 psi. The rear mounted shock can be seen in figure 5.


    Figure 5: Rear shock mounted.

    Power Train
    Another issue we've had with our stance length (can't think of the correct terminology) is getting axle shafts that are long enough. We got some Polaris Outlaw axle shafts and they were still about a half inch too short so we had to extend them with a sleeve. One of our mentors suggested we go with a longer sleeve but we figured for our purposes our smaller sleeve should be fine. The modified axle shaft can be seen in figure 6. We essentially cut the shaft found some pipe that would fit and put 4 plug welds in the sleeve for strength. While I agree with the suggestion for a sleeve to be the complete length of the axle shaft I think for how little power our engine has and how light our buggy is our smaller sleeve should be fine. Considering last year they did the same except they didn't even use a sleeve they just groove welded the shaft together and their shaft held up fine.


    Figure 6: Modified axle shaft.

    We also mounted up the gas tank but we had no fuel line so we couldn't fire the buggy up which was a shame. There are a ton of rules regarding the gas tank that we have to adhere to so that we can compete. Some are the gas tank has to be completely enclosed and have splash guard so when mounting the gas tank we had to take all of these things into consideration. The mounted tank can be seen in Figure 6.


    Figure 7: The push mower gas tank mounted up.

    This weeks finished product


    Figure 8: Everything we got down with this week.


    Figure 9: Side by Side with last years buggy.
    ___________
    1990 Jeep Comanche

  11. #30
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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    Almost there, almost there!

    Frame
    Got the last couple required piece of the frame made and welded on. We will maybe add a couple more for seat brackets or miscellaneous things. The first was the engine bar roll bar. The trouble with this piece was to keep it out of the way of the CV and the shock. The roll bar also per rules had to be in line with the side roll bar of the cab, which in our design was very close to the shock and unfortunately due to the CV I had to bend some metal but I was able to take an old piece and just copy the bend and get the pieces in. This piece can be seen in figure 1. The second piece was for the upper siding which holds the numbers and kill switch. This one was just a simple straight pipe with two notches in it and it can be seen in figure 2. The last was moving tube for the harness mount which could have been avoid had we read the rules before installing the original bar. The reason for the change was the mounts could not be above the drivers shoulders and the original bar was ~3” higher. The center lines of the two shoulder straps also have to be within 7-9” of each other and the best we could do because of the cross tube was 9.5” and even then the harness was shifted left. You can see the new bar and some mounting in figure 3.


    Figure 1: Engine bay roll bar


    Figure 2: Upper siding and gas tank enclosure bar mount.

    Figure 3: Harness mounts. If you look the drivers shoulders you can see the new mounts.

    Suspension
    The suspension was completed this week by getting all the shocks mounted and trailing arms finished. The shock mounts for the front were a little bit of a pain since the shocks are being mounted parallel with the caster of the hubs. This was solved by just giving them some hammer love to one way or another. The front shocks can be seen in figure 4. The trailing arms were also finished. The brackets one of the team members made for going around the hub was a little weak as is since we were able to bend it standing on the tire was reevaluated and fixed and is significantly stronger. I forgot to get a picture of the new brackets so I'll try and do that this week. We were also having a problem with one of the rear tires toeing out due to a wrong cut but that was fixed by cutting half way by the weld and smacking it with a hammer until the toe was where we wanted it. The final part of the trailing arms was the bottom arm or support arm. I was hesitant on doing this arm since the notch that it required was ~72o and our notcher only goes to 60o. This was solved by notching the tube to the 60o max then adding a bend to the pipe to make the angle of the notch work. The finished arms ca be seen in figure 5. The last thing to do with the suspension is final adjustments once painted and adjusting the shocks for our desired ride height. In figure 6 and 7 you can see us “testing” out our finished suspension.

    Figure 4: Front shock mount on the lower A-arm


    Figure 5: Finished Trailing arm (still needs to be welded)


    Figure 6: "Testing" out the suspension


    Figure 7: more "Testing"

    Power train/Steering/Braking
    We were able to get the engine fired up so we at least know it works. We are having some trouble with the governor since it has to be set to the 5 position and CANNOT BE MOVED (Automatic DQ). But our problem is when it’s set there it doesn’t open the throttle body what so ever so were hoping once we have the engine firmly mounted we can play around with it to do what we need. One of the things that was mentioned to us by our mentor was keeping the engine from sliding during the competition since we have it on adjustable mounts. One of our members can up with a system where we have a piece of steel mounted to the ends of the engine mount and run a bolt through it so the engine cannot move either way. It’s more easily understood what it is if you see figure 8. We were also able to get the steering figured out after 2 u-joints and a lot of machining. The biggest problem we were running into was clearance since the front A-arms mount fairly close it give little room for play in the steering. So though the use of some spacers with misalignment and an angled base mount we were able to get our steering in place. I once again for got to get a picture of the steering I'll upload some this week.


    Figure 8: Engine Placement blocks. We tapped these mounts so a bolt can be ran through to keep the engine from vibration across our mounts.

    The brakes were causing us some trouble in that running two masters did not give a lot of room for movement in the front and we were trying to space the brakes out in such a way that they’d still be comfortable for the drivers. We were able to shift the mounting as far to the side as possible allowing for us to still get the caps off but in doing so the masters had to be mounted at an angle. The pedal was also a problem since it was long for our set up and instead of using pressing it with your toe it would be more in the center of the foot. This was fixed by making a new brake pedal which was shorter than stock. See figure 9.


    Figure 9: New brake pedal

    We were also able to devise a gas pedal and mounting for our needs. I ended up purchasing a throttle cable that was a little excessive for what we’re doing but we were able to make it work. See the pedal and mounting in figure 10. The other problem the throttle cable caused was mounting to the engine so we again made some mounting for the engine side which will probably ended up working better than last year’s design. Will upload picture later this week. The last linkage we needed to worry about was the shifter linkage. Last year had a very sloppy electrical taped design granted they built the buggy in 2 weeks but this year with more time we decided to do something a little more professional. The shifter is mounted on the front along with the pedals and wheel for a better look and should be more solid. The only problem with this plan is our drivers having short arms but we can make due it needed. Will upload picture later this week.


    Figure 10: Throttle pedal and mounting for it.

    Miscellaneous
    The fire wall and numbers were also built this week. The fire wall is just made out of some sheet aluminum with some weather stripping to cover the sharp edges. See figure 11. The numbers were made out of some steel sheet which I think I’ll recut once we get some more aluminum sheet since the each number weighs probably over a pound. See figure 12.


    Figure 11: Fire wall


    Figure 12: Competition Numbers

    Things left to do
    We will hopefully get our brakes routed and bled by Thursday and then it’s off to testing and paint later that week. We’re thinking of going copper frame, black siding and maybe some different cream for the suspension (I’m not a fan). But after those two things it’s really just a matter of getting the siding on and other odds and ends and we should be ready to race.


    I have multiple pictures of various parts or if anyone wants more let me know and I'd gladly take some more.
    ___________
    1990 Jeep Comanche

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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build



    No major writing just pictures.

    Miscellaneous Pictures.

    Here are a few more pictures of the front end and suspension components.


    Figure 1: Better look at the throttle, brake, steering and shifter set up.


    Figure 2: Birds eye view of the front end set up.


    Figure 3: Steering rack ends


    Figure 4: Steering rack ends


    Figure 5: Steering rack mount. Obviously it was fully welded later.


    Figure 6: Throttle set up.

    Looks a little funky since the throttle cable I purchased was overkill and not necessarily right for our application but we made it work.


    Figure 7: Seat and bottom skid plate.


    Figure 8: Reinforced rear arm brackets and mounting.


    I've returned home so from here on out I'm posting fellow team members photos until the race.

    Figure 9: Got a nice copper powder coat.


    Figure 10: Batteries mounted for the brake and reverse light along with the reverse beeper.


    Figure 11: Getting the CV cover made.
    ___________
    1990 Jeep Comanche

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    Default Re: SAE Baja Buggy build




    Figure 12: Fire Extinguisher mounted.



    Figure 13: Almost ready to Rock and Roll.


    Figure 14: Lastly what build is complete with out some trucker ladies!
    ___________
    1990 Jeep Comanche

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