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Thread: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2

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    Default Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    Does anyone know what the difference is between the 4.0 and 5.2 steering kits is? I bought this kit from Amazon because it said that it fit my ZJ (it has the 5.2) but when I looked it up on the rugged ridge site it says it is for the 4.0 only. Not sure what the difference is. I have googled all over, but cannot find a solid answer. I might try to call rugged ridge this afternoon and see if they have any better info.

    Also My jeep is lifted ~ 5 inches, so I am not sure what difference that will cause. I have the drop pitman arm for the 4.5" lift kits.

    I am taking a Iron Rock offroad heim joint kit off of my jeep because it is not the greatest for highway use and seems to have some bump steer. I want to be able to drive my jeep to the trails, and figured this kit would be a good start, but not sure after reading the 4.0 to 5.2 thing.

    Thanks for the help!

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    genrally the kit for the 4.0 is heavier OEM stuff for the 5.2 that you can actually buy from any parts store. I have a MOOG V8 ZJ tierod on my LJ, it's a common upgrade. HTH

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    This is the reply that I got from the Rugged Ridge support:

    Unfortunately, the way that the oil pan and trac bar are set up on the 5.2 do not allow the 18050.82 steering system to work.


    We do not have a steering system or drag link available that is specifically designed for the 5.2 or 5.9L ZJ.

    Your Omix Support System Team,


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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    So I am still confused because the suspension geometry is not that different between the 4.0 and the 5.2 stock from the factory. I guess that this is saying that the oil pan on the 5.2 must be lower and interfere with the drag link. Why they would design the steering differently between the two is beyond me, seems like extra work and cost.

    I have a fitment guarantee from amazon, so I might try and fit it on there to see what happens. Being that I have a lift kit on there, the track bar and engine positions are not in the stock location anyhow. I have the drop pitman arm too which should give even more clearance for the drag link from the oil pan from the stock setup.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    I would install and then cycle it.
    full drop both side and full stuff both sides.

    I bet you wont have any issues
    ___________
    Crazy- You call me crazy, but you wouldn't know crazy if Charles Manson was eating Fruit Loops on your front porch. Suiciadl tendancies- intatutionalized

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    dieseldoc previously posted:
    "I would install and then cycle it.
    full drop both side and full stuff both sides.

    I bet you wont have any issues"

    Started to install, looked like it would work, but found out that the pitman arm and the knuckles have been drilled out for 5/8" heim joint bolts. So back to the drawing board.

    I guess that I will just keep the iron rock offroad over the knuckle steering. Anyone know of a way to tighten it up? It has a dead band that is about half a turn of the steering wheel and kinda wanders all over when going down the road. I do not notice any death wobble or bump steering on the highway, so that is nice, but the general unresponsiveness is a little concerning.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    you'll just have to find out whats loose. if its worn heims then replace them.also sometimes the misalignment spacers wear and get a little play between them and the bore of the heim.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    redneck23ms previously posted:
    "you'll just have to find out whats loose. if its worn heims then replace them.also sometimes the misalignment spacers wear and get a little play between them and the bore of the heim."

    I felt the heims, they feel fine. I think that it is the fact that the drag link crosses over the tie rod and can rotate. The install instructions state that there needs to be a 5 degree angle somewhere on the drag link, but it is not entirely clear where. I am taking everything off this weekend so if there is an issue I will find it.

    Anyone else with this steering have a similar issue? I did not install it, so I do not know if they did it right, or if this is normal and how it is supposed to steer.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    Can you post some pics? Drag link shouldn't be anywhere near the tie rod with a heim set up and they should never cross.

    My 2 cents - ditch the heims, they are the wrong tool for an on road application. You'll need to get new knuckles. If you want to keep that axle upgrade to the WJ knuckles. It's a bit of work but well worth it.

    If you want to swing it by I'd be happy to take a look at it, I'm just west of I-25 or you can bring it to the shop (frontage road just south of 119) over lunch.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    GPP33 previously posted:
    "Can you post some pics? Drag link shouldn't be anywhere near the tie rod with a heim set up and they should never cross.

    My 2 cents - ditch the heims, they are the wrong tool for an on road application. You'll need to get new knuckles. If you want to keep that axle upgrade to the WJ knuckles. It's a bit of work but well worth it.

    If you want to swing it by I'd be happy to take a look at it, I'm just west of I-25 or you can bring it to the shop (frontage road just south of 119) over lunch."

    This is the kit that is on there now:
         

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    I agree with getting rid of the heims, and I was planning a WJ brake swap anyway. I watched some install videos, and everyone commented on how tight the steering was, so I am assuming that there must be something else wrong with mine. I have a leak in the steering gear box, so I am going to rebuild it too as part of this project. I have not looked at the linkages or steering box, other than noticing that it has a reinforced lower mount.

    I appreciate the offer to look at the jeep. I had a couple hours on Monday after work so I completely removed the front axle including the steering getting it ready for the new axle that should be arriving next week. I wanted to pull everything apart and paint it before I reassemble it.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    Wow, never seen one set up like that. Surprised it doesn't crash into itself. Certainly not the cleanest way to do it. The WJ knuckles will also help with the drag link angle. A 5" lift puts it at a pretty steep angle which won't help with your dead spot.

    Also look at the shaft and associated joints between the steering wheel and the steering box.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    There have been a few aftermarket companies that made a heim steering like that. They do it that way to keep the drag link and track bar on the same angle to reduce bump steer without redoing the trackbar mounting.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    I see why from a geometry stand point it works, looks like a pretzel though.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    GPP33 previously posted:
    "I see why from a geometry stand point it works, looks like a pretzel though."

    If it did not have the dead band in the middle of the steering, it would be a great kit and it is beefy. Hopefully I can get in there and tighten everything up without too many problems. I was hoping to find someone that had it installed with a similar problem, and had a fix or a couple things to check.

    Thanks for the input guys.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    There's nothing about the tie rod or drag geometry that would create a dead spot. The drag link rotating won't cause wondering, I'd be looking at play in the joints including the track bar, slop in the steering box, steering shaft, ball joints and unit bearings. Also make sure your alignment is correct. The angle of your drag link from 5" of lift will also make your steering less responsive due to the increased vertical forces. Finally body lean induced steering can make the steering feel wondery as you'll always be correcting for it, that's suspension geometry dependent though and difficult to correct.

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2




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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    Along those lines here are some inserts to put the stock taper back in if you want to go that way. The stock steering design gets pretty bad when you lift it though.

    http://www.goferitoffroad.com/products.htm

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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    X2 on the set up not being your issue.

    I chased death wobble for 2 months....it was the steering box had worn and got loose.
    So you have a leak in the box, there is your dead spot.

    Rebuild or new should fix the issue.
    The steering set you have is a good set and beefy!
    ___________
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    Default Re: Grand Cherokee Steering ZJ 4.0 vs 5.2



    GPP33 previously posted:
    "Along those lines here are some inserts to put the stock taper back in if you want to go that way. The stock steering design gets pretty bad when you lift it though.

    http://www.goferitoffroad.com/products.htm"

    Welp, I guess they do make everything... $20 each is a little steep.

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