Engine Diagnosis

[Patrolman]

G&S is a local machine shop in Littleton. I have used them over the years, and my dad has been going there since the 1980's. They have always done very good work and been very honest. Typically I go there for testing/machining heads and such. Never taken a full block in.

http://gandsautoparts.com/

[EKXJ87]

Western Engine Supply Inc. is where I took my 4.0 head in to get rebuilt. It was recommended to my be a fellow co-worker who had them rebuild his 50's Chevy Belair motor, they have been In Business for 27yrs and seem to be fair and honest and I got it back when the said it would be done.
http://www.westernenginesupply.com/

[FINOCJ]

Jim previously posted:

[Jim]

FINOCJ previously posted:

[Java]

I put Howell fuel injection on my 88 YJ's 258 and it was fantastic. It was a basically OEM GM 4.3 TBI setup with a reprogrammed PROM chip and a simple aluminum adapter to fit it to the intake manifold. It also had a block off plate for the mechanical fuel pump and switched to an inline pump and filter but reused the tank and lines. I bet a 4.3 TBI would be easy to rig up on your engine and down the road if you go 4.3 it would bolt in.

[FINOCJ]

Howell definitely has the most popular system for the later 4.2 258. I am far from knowledgeable on this but the typical gm style injection has a some hassle with the odd fire v6. I think the gm fi computer needs both fuel and ignition sensors to work and the odd fire causes the computer to think the ignition is changing when its not. I think some have worked around this by putting a crank trigger signal to supply the necessary info for ignition and rpm. Holley does have a new system for the 225 so guessing it doesn't depend on the ignition signal (ez efi just needs tach info from coil although its a bit inconsistent). I like my odd fire if for no other reason than because its ...odd. but it does cause some compatibility issues with aftermarket performance parts.

[FINOCJ]

Jim previously posted:

[Hypoid]

Jim previously posted:

[Patrolman]

Not to mention putting undue stress on the throw-out bearing. I have replaced clutches before just because someone was pushing the clutch in all the time at a stop. It wore out the throw-out bearing, even though the rest of the clutch was in reasonable shape.

[Brian]

Paul previously posted:

[FINOCJ]

Hypoid previously posted:

[dieseldoc]

jassper engine x3
good stuff they build their.

looks like end play is way out of spec and you may have egg shaped the pistion bores.
you can tear it down and do some messuring your self and see if it is saveable.
the engin service manuals these days do have decent rebuild info so you can save money by doing the check your self and then make the informed deciision about it being serviceable.
just take gyour time mark every thing so it goes back the way it came out.

[Hypoid]

FINOCJ previously posted:

[FINOCJ]

Getting some information on my engine as its now torn down. It is an old engine that has had some work done: been bored .030 over and some brass liners. No hardened valve seats though. Also had paint on the front of the block inside the front cover that was coming off. Not sure what that was all about - doesn't seem like you want paint that can peel off into the oil system. But it looks like the main damage came from the thrusting crank issue, and when it went, it ground a lot of metal into the oil system, wasted the gears in the oil pump and front cover. Obviously the main bearings, rod bearings and wrist pins are damaged from all the metal as well as some of the valve lifters were essentially plugged. Its got a ridge at the top of the cylinders. The crank is so damaged that machine shop suggested a new crank would be the better option rather than trying to fix this one. Can't tell for sure, but the camshaft doesn't have any obvious stamping on it, so it might be OEM or maybe generic OEM replacement. Guess that means a new cam could provide some additional performance.

So deciding if I want to go through a full-rebuild or maybe look to an engine swap option. Its going to need another boring (total of .060 over which is max for piston availability), and of course all the new internal pieces for both top and bottom end. Hardened valve seats would also be installed, new Melling high volume oil pump, and new front cover to go with new timing chain, gears etc. The good news is its a totally new engine ready to run forever, and jeep is still 'original', at least in terms of period correct OEM replacement. Bad news, its a lot of money, especially getting shop work for boring and machining heads plus valve seats and wrist pins, add all new internals (was holding out some hope that might just hone it and re-use pistons and rods), and cost for new crank, and its still an odd-fire engine that has lots of difficulties getting a TBI system to work with it.

Of the Buick 90 degree V6 series, mine would be the Dauntless 225 (all were odd-fire with heavy flywheel - good for off road). The engine was later tweaked to a 231 but still odd-fire (and later with HEI), and finally the 231 was again retweaked as an even-fire with HEI - some of these later 231s have a different flywheel and balancing system but are pretty easy drop in replacements. A cj5 forum acquaintance has a running even fire 231 ready to go - he even replaced with dauntless manifolds and balanced with dauntless heavy flywheel. I like the even fire aspect as it could be run with TBI off the shelf and HEI is built in. Cost is also 1/4 the cost of rebuild and parts, but I do have to travel to St Louis over a weekend, but even with such gas and travel expense it might still be a better option?

Decisions....

PS- I'll see if I can get some pics of the carnage posted tomorrow

[Spieg]

Sounds like a project no matter which way you go. Totally get wanting to keep the original equipment, but nothing lasts forever... If you do go with the even fire - I (and others I know) have used Fastenal for shipping parts. Unless you really want to go to St Louis, it's a pretty cheap and fast option. It's a counter to counter service so you have to get parts to/from a local store.
https://www.fastenal.com/en/22/third...ogistics-(3pl)

[dieseldoc]

sounds like ypu dauntless is dione.
if ypu go .060 over you will have over heat issues as the water jackets are so close to the piston bore.
it will also be the last time you can rebuild it, at least with out sleves in the bore.


I think you are goimg the right way with the even fire engine.
they are a bit less tempermentail.
that engine will also keep the rest of the drive train as well.

good luck with your next step.

[Patrolman]

As others mentioned, the even fire might be the best option. The original engine realistically only has one rebuild left, and a costly one at that. It might be best to do the even fire, and keep the original engine around for the future?

If you decide to get the even fire and need shipping, check out ForwardAir (it is ground service even though the name says Air). I sent a complete rear axle to LA for about $60 (several years ago). The item just needs to be secured to a pallet. It is only dock to dock shipping, so you have to go to their location to pick it up. Beats a long road trip though.

https://www.forwardair.com/

[FINOCJ]

All used engines have concern that they might not last, but this might be a good way to go. I don't really want to deal with all the hassles of a true 'swap' that requires new mounts, transmission adapters, driveshafts, possible floorpan mods etc. But the 231 is a drop in 'replacement' that mounts right up to my mounts and transmission. They guy selling it is actually one of the guy I sold my OD to when I got the new AA OD this summer - I know him pretty well and he is very active in a number of old Willys restoration groups (Has some very nice 3Bs). As for shipping, he has said he won't ship on his end, so doesn't matter how easy it is. But that could make the price a bit more negotiable. Can't be too many people looking for 30 year old Buick engines - its a 1983.

[Jim]

Patrolman previously posted:

[Hypoid]

My intuition tells me you should make sure the Taco has been vacuumed out before you cross the state line.

I am surprised the machine shop did not condemn the main bearing cap you showed us.