MSV - Coney Flats (good news bad news)

[Tom]

First the good news. MSV-Coney Flats trail will officially open for the season tomorrow, (Sun 6/26) in the afternoon sometime. I ran it today with TRR and the FS. We cleared 12 down trees and widow makers. And put up some new signage. Others rebuilt the gate keeper, painted the entrance signs and hut as well as hauled 200' of buck and rail. The buck and rail is to be installed tomorrow and the gates will open as soon as its completed.

Now for the bad news. The FS told us they'd licensed two atv rental firms to use the trail. I'd get out there soon if you want to run it before the trail is destroyed.

[dieseldoc]

Well F#%@ there goes one of the best sets of trails....
Going to be crawling with ATV's and going to get covered in trash.
Will be all kinds of new illegal bypasses as well.

[96EXXLTinCO]

Headed to T33 tomorrow morning with a couple other RBV's. Looks like I'll be running this tomorrow then!!! Why on earth would the FS let them use 2 of the most popular trails in the area?? Wasn't taking over Bunce and ironclads enough?? I suppose since they are connecting they don't have a lot of choice though?

[Tom]

96EXXLTinCO previously posted:

[Tom]

[Brucker]

ATV's are a part of our community as well. Instead of looking down upon a few bad eggs, like so many do to us, why don't we use our energy to educate those around us and those we see/meet on the trail. Seems that would be a much better example than blaming one certain crowd for all the troubles. I know I don't enjoy being blamed for the few asshats that are involved with our sport.

And we can hope that the owners/operators will do their due diligence. And as far as I know, no one shoots up at MSV. That will leave a lot of the trash out of the equation. Also, MSV, with all it's water crossings and few obstacles, maybe there won't be that much more traffic. Maybe.

[Hypoid]

Tom previously posted:

[Tom]

Link fixed.

Have you guys seen what the rental atvers have done to Bunce, Ironclads, and T33a?

Obtw the rental companies had certified sawyers that were going to clear trees on Sat. They didn't show. ATVers as a group have no respect from me.

[Brucker]

Tom previously posted:

[Java]

ATV owners are part of the offroad community, but a tourist renting one for a 1/2 day is not, IMO. In FL we called them the Griswalds like "Vacation", they'd crash scooters, jet skis, boats, cars, motorcycles, bikes, just about anything they could rent and use with little or no experience. They'd go into protected areas, make wakes in no wake zones, drive on the beach, miss stop signs, it all drove the locals crazy. I'd imagine our local ATV community has the same responsible to reckless ratio as us, and I've never heard of any issues with them in those areas before this. Rental customers are tough on equipment and everything else. The owner of the rental is one of us though, I bet he / she would be eager to eliminate problems if someone reached out to them or the Forest Service especially with pics or videos. I know in Idaho Springs all the rentals are guided tours only, and they don't have many issues, that could be suggested.

Owners don't do this:

"Just a few friends and a jeep rental on a weekend trip to Moab, Utah. I'd definitely recommend the optional insurance upgrade... if you know what I mean."

[newracer]

I heard that by having the agreements the rental companies will have to provide at least minimal training and educations and they can be held responsible for the actions of the renters.

[newracer]

Abandoned rental jeep on Hell's Revenge in Moab.

[Chris]

I don't think Cliffhanger Rental intended the renters to be so literal!

I've gotten more annoyed with rented ATV's when they just don't know the basic trail etiquette. Example was climbing some long stretch in BV and seeing an ATV sitting dead ahead in the middle of the trail at the top making me go around him. Just stupid!

As an 'old guy' I have noticed the majority of these drivers are in my age group. Not sure I should generalize but that's mostly what I've run in to. I hope it's just because we, like other retirees, wheel weekdays but it's getting more popular in the older population.

[dieseldoc]

I fully believe that all rentals should be guided tours only.
After living in Moab for a year and a half, the Griswalds are just plain stupid fools.
Go rent something and trash it.
You would not be live the stories people tell about how 3-5 grand of damage gets done!
As well as how they didn't know they were not to take the said rented vehicle to a trail it was not to go!

As for the ATV users, I see more bad behavior from them than I do out of the 4x4 community.
You will not catch me in rampart range during peak session.

[Chris]

I won't go to Rainbow Falls due to ATV's - had one almost hit me coming around a curve and had a second one slam into me doing significant damage to his machine and my truck. Once, just some idiot, twice I stay away. Condeming users of a trail based on two people - yes!

[The StRanger]

Brucker previously posted:

[newracer]

Not to mention the single largest source of money that goes to trails comes from the license that motorcycles, ATVs, and side by sides are required to purchase.

[dieseldoc]

I totally get it.
But I still lean to the need for them to have more requirments.
These machines have no yearly inspections, no emissions testing, no drivers license requirments, and no plate to allow other users a way to report there miss use and actions.
We have a plate that can be used to track down the S!*# Birds who do damage or off off trail behavior And I guarantee you that the ATV proud uses that plate to report people.
The fact is out in the rampart range they have kill one another with there high speed stupidness.
You don't see that kind of behavior in our part of the community.

[Max]

Brucker previously posted:

[96EXXLTinCO]

A couple quick examples of my "awesome" run-ins with ATV's/UTV's. Last year I passed a guy on Fern Creek in a UTV who was headed up while I was headed down. We made room for each other to pass, waved and said thank you to each other, no big deal. Got down to the end of the trail where there's a big open dirt area. Myself and the other 2 rigs we were with pulled over and talking and walked back up the trail a bit to take some pics. The same guy I passed a bit earlier came back down the trail, smiled and waved at us as he went by, then proceeded down to where our trucks were, backed up to the drivers side of mine and floored it peppering the side of my truck with gravel and filling everyone's truck with dust. Let me tell you how lucky he is I was so far away from my truck, I'll leave it at that. This was a UTV owner.

Next, I ran T33 with a couple friends from a facebook group this last Sunday. The trail was great, a good challenge for the little Explorer. The company on the trail, good guys, would do anything for anyone. BUT, rental UTV's/ATV's EVERYWHERE. Zero etiquette, zero patience, zero respect. One j*$ass in particular.......I was caught up in a traffic jam at one point in the trail, it was going to take a while to figure out how to get a lot of trucks past one another. This world class moron in a rental UTV (they're easy to spot, they have a big orange slow moving vehicle type triangle with a number on it) apparently decided he didn't need to wait for anything, probably because he was trying to get the most out of his money (have you seen what they're charging for these things???) and proceeded to weave his way through rigs, barely missing most of them. He goes to cross the trail behind me on a pretty off camber spot and I STILL have no clue how the roll cage on that thing didn't touch my back end. Several people including one of his passengers were yelling at him to stop because he was going to hit me, didn't phase him. A little while later down the trail, here comes world class j*$ass again behind us. We all pulled off out of the way to let him through. Although he had plenty of room, he proceeded to tell us where to move to so he could get by. REALLY???? I almost lost it.................

The people up there who were owners of their UTV/ATV's were quite courteous and I'd share the trail with them any day. But this rental guy in particular is the perfect example problems this is going to cause. I didn't make it to MSV that day like I was planning, even though it was open when we finally got down off T33, but I plan to run it soon, and then probably not again until the rentals close up for the season. I can already see issues like Paul was describing happening with these people and I do not have the patience for blatant disregard for others and/or our trails. The only way they should be allowed to operate is with a guide that can babysit them and make sure they're displaying proper ettiquette and respect.