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Thread: Docs 04 TJ

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Nice! Glad to hear you solved your death wobble, with an upgrade to boot!

    Congrats!

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Do you feel your new box is more robust than the OEM, Brandon? Any downside to the higher working pressure required? Looks like a mod to seriously consider especially since you've proven it to be a doable upgrade. I'll be "bending your ear" on this one for more specifics next time I see you.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Dale, yes there is a vast improvement.
    The working pressures are no issue for,the stock pump.
    The box I chose has cooled fins in the end cap.
    So that should help with fluid temps a little bit.
    I am also using hydrolic fluid vs. ATF my pump had a little noise from being heated,
    The noise has gone away.

    At idle this box turns muy 33's lock to lock with 2 fingers on the wheel.
    I bet with a PSC pump it would do it with 1 finger on the wheel.

    I feel the Mercedes box is a waist of time.
    I understand why it found its way into the wrangler but it was a poor place to save money.

    Options for steering boxes,
    One can use a Drango box
    Or go back to a sagnaw style like I did.

    It was a bit of work to make fit, the high presure hose from a 2002 is required
    And the lower shaft has to be made shorter
    But in all its a very doable deal.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    That gearbox seems like a good solution. Brandon, I couldn't tell from the pix, how did you handle placement and mounting for the gearbox? Also, you've had your lift for a while now. Other than the trackbar, are you satisfied with performance and height, etc. for 33s?

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    The placement on this box is the same as the 98-02, it uses the same holes etc so it's a bolt in.
    The biggest issues are the hose and lower shaft.
    Realy the box it's self was easy it's a bolt in deal.
    It is working very well and a t lower cost than a remanufactured factory box.

    The lift is working very nicely.
    We still rub on the fire wall at full turn with one tire up in the fender.

    The front track bar has been an issue well be for the lift want into the jeep.
    For the cost it was a good option, used heavy duty springs as well.
    It rides nicy, we have broke it in very well this summer and it is not saying or any thing like that.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    I guess the 06 Wrangler may have the same steering setup .... have to check. On the lift, I wonder if its worth looking for an option that would permit getting a separate adjustable track bar. I'd like to make the axle bracket hole larger but am reluctant to drill another. Forgot to ask about the rear pinion, but it sounds like you may want to change the alignment if you are looking for some adjustable control links. Thanks for all the info, Brandon.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    The quadra tech kit uses the factory front and rear track bars. The rear gets a relocation bracket, the front stays stock.
    An after market front like the JKS for 1-3" lift would be a great option.
    The are right $240

    The 2006 model uses the Mercedes box.

    The kit alows for upgrading as one can acord to.
    I will be getting the control arm set from CORE4x4. At $700 for all four with jonny joints on one end.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Your lift has been informative for me, Brandon. Now I understand what's needed for 33s. The flat fenders probably save you at least 1 1/2" - 2" in lift. I'm ambivalent on whether to save the stock fenders or put on some flats. The advantage of a lower c.g. and probably less driveline issues is very appealing. Still, I like the stock fender look. Now I know the difference and can make an informed decision after I get it down on paper. I still have some wobble issues but haven't completed a thorough inspection of the steering components. Good to have a practical option on the steering box if its showing excessive wear. The new track bar at least made it drivable on the highway. Sorry I couldn't make the cleanup run today. Sunday mornings are difficult for me.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Dale previously posted:
    "The advantage of a lower c.g. and probably less driveline issues is very appealing."

    I haven't been following along...

    Are body lifts available for your model? I ask as you comment on having a lower CG / fewer driveline "undesirable" angles.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    There are body lifts available.
    I don't recommend more than an inch as it create shifter issues with T-case.
    Yes the flat fenders save me near 2 inch of lift.
    But as the jeep had 33's on it when I bought it, I don't think anything more than the 2.5 inch is needed.
    Wheels make a big difference as the wheels I have keep the tires off the control arms.
    Dale your LJ will have much less drive line vibration as you have the longer wheel base and the Rubicon has the slip home eliminated from the factory. So that frees you up for going into a 3.5 inch kit the Quadra teck 3.5 inch kit has new lower arms to correct pinion angles, sway bar diconects and the case lowering kit needed for the short wheel base.


    After a good day on the trail I must say that I am very pleased with my steering box.
    The Darango box would have left me with a less performing box.
    I have noticed less body roll with steering as the box is not forcing the frame over.

    Dale,if you would you may bring your jeep by the shop any time and I will help you figure out your wobble issues.
    Keep in mind if you have a sloppy box it will wobble no later what you do.
    I,had play from the 11 o'clock to the 1 o'clock position on the steering wheel
    This is way out of spec and way beyond what DOT dems safe in a truck.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Jim, the reason I mention driveline issues is that the majority of threads I've read with higher lifts mention driveline vibration issues and dropping the transfer case and/or changing pinion angle with adjustable control arms to overcome these issues. It seems that some if not all the lower lifts don't find it necessary to include control arms. Unless I'm misinterpreting your question, several mfrs. list 1" to 1.25" body lifts for the TJ and similar motor mount lifts. I've also thought about 35s with flat fenders but then I'm getting into a gear change and beefier front end components, no?

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Dale with your longer wheel base drive line issues are far less of an issue. And with the Rubicon it's even less issue.
    As I mentioned in my last responce you won't need to drop the T-case tell you get into 4 plus inch of lift.
    With the 3.5 inch from quadratec you would do very well to clear 33's
    Your Rubicon has the stronger front axle as well.
    The center section is the d44 the rest is still d30 stuff.
    Some adujustable upper arms would be a good idea for alignment.
    Core4x4 offers there stuff in upper and lower sets as well as front of rear.
    I don't see a need for 35's unless you plan to get into some of the harder stuff sooner.
    We have been running 33's and go the same places as our friends on 35's.
    Its all driver experience that will get you in and put.
    As you mentioned 35's will force you to spend on gears, and shafts at some point.
    The way you are set up now 33's will not.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Charles Wells' TJ, the guy who writes the Fun Treks books, has a 3" lift, ARBs and 33s, he does every trail in the book. I just saw their new one going over Red Cone, it's a JKU with a 1.5" lift and 33" Grabber ATs.

    Nice job on the steering box, Brandon.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Thanks Paul.
    Its a totally different jeep now.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Brandon, we cross posted yesterday evening so I missed your first set of comments then. You and Paul make some persuasive arguments for not jumping into 35s. I am &nbsp;now satisfied there will be plenty of time down the road to make further changes; if indeed I ever feel the need. So I've decided to plan for 33s (maybe it's 315s on 16" wheels). Presently, I think I would like to hang on as many adjustable components as are likely to be required in the future. So I'm thinking of adjustable control arms and track bars front and rear. Also I'd like to explore the Nth Degree Lightning quick disconnect. (It is a lever setup that permits reconnecting with up to 8" height difference side to side.) Wonder if anyone on the forum is a user?<br>
    <br>
    If I purchase the mentioned items separately, looks like I just need a basic lift with only springs and shocks. Have looked at Quadratec and Rough Country 3.5 and 3.25 respectively. Also looked at Iron Rock ... but I think their kit is a Rough Country. I will likely stick with Quadratec or Rough Country as you and Paul, respectively, have favorable experience with them. The complete kits don't seem to suit my thoughts as they have some component that is not adjustable like track bar or control arms. They also include quick disconnects which I won't need if indeed the Nth Degree part is worthwhile.<br>
    <br>
    Appreciate your offer of an assist on the wobble. That will be helpful, for sure. I'm sorry I missed the cleanup run yesterday. Sounds like it was a useful test for your improved steering setup. Isn't it terrific when a plan comes together? That steering box substitution is one cool mod!<br>

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    The control arms I am going to use are a nice set, they ha a favorable write ups and are resionable in cost.
    You can order them in a wide variety of colors.
    They use ruber on the frame side to isolate vibration and road noise.
    Flex joints on the other ends.
    And the full set for front rear upper lower is 700, CORE 4x4. Americian made in UT.

    The steering box was a tough call but I am glad I want with the AGR box and not a Durango one.
    After speaking with Dave (your passenger for the last clean up) I feel the extra expence was well worth it.
    I do need a steering pump as mine is failing from being heated, but that will come next month some time.
    I am going to install the PSC one with resivore.
    It has higher flow rate and higher pressures, it can run a ram if I ever go that way.
    I don't think hydro assist will need to go on the jeep as it won't get anything bigger than a 35 inch tifre, as I am keeping it streetable.
    I am building a bigger rig for the hard core stuff. And Threads will drive this so it needs to stay easy to drive.

    Sounds like you have a plan figured out, now it's time to research the parts before dropping your funds on things.

    My lift seems to be doing a very good job, heavier springs have made the ride in town a little rougher, just a little. They are taking the abuse well, and has I wheel it hard so it's proving to be of quality.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Definitely looks like you will be set for a while with a great wheeling rig when you get those control arms installed. Im not familiar with the PSC pump you mention. Is it an oem item? I'm keen to have that information in my file.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    PSC is an aftermarket power steering pump.

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    Pac is one of the top manufacures for,modified pump and steering set up with hydro assist.
    The pump I will be using is set up to run a ram, yet still has the results attached,to it to keep the stock location.
    This pump will help the box I installed to run even better.

    Thank you Dale I,spend a lot of time researching products before I buy.
    I don't want to have to buy something twice...thus my discust with the track bar issue.

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    Dale (August 10th, 2016)

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    Default Re: Docs 04 TJ



    So I have in stalled the control arms from CORE4x4 in the past month.
    WOW.....I still had a slight bit of death wobble trying to show up.
    This was caused by the bushings in the control arms being totally worn out.
    I even had one that was bent!
    So after installing the new control arms ( thanks kurts)
    The jeep behaves like it should.
    The steering doesn't make the jeep lean anymore, as well as corners and getting into it.
    I still have the front sway bar removed and it drives as if it was there.....
    In this install I moved the front coward 1/2" to hopefully get the tires off the fire wall at full stuff.


    Next on the list is to replace the rear carrier.
    As it was welded a few years ago as I was on a super tight budget and wanted it locked.
    This summer (435th of July on red elephant hill) the welds let go.
    I have welded them back up, thus making the carrier out of balance.
    This vibration is magnified as the driveline angle is a touch off for the rear as well.

    The plan,
    A jana k4 instal. http://www.jantz4x4.com/jantz.php?p=detail&pro=jana_k4
    This uses the new school gears from a JK as well as the carrier to add near 45% increase in strength
    The kit also us3s a new diff cover with bearing cap strength.
    Itukeeps the caps from deflecting.

    I have piced up a D44 30 spline Yukon grizzly locker for 300, it was a scratch/dent/out of box deal.
    It's for the 3.73 and down to make this work.
    Now with use of different bearings and races the JK d44 gears will fit my TJ d44 housing.

    Pics to come as parts trickle in.

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